Efb ?

[Nige.Coll]

ok i'm new at this
i have read and looked at every thread and all internet info on this .
One hive smells wrong.
I didn't see any flakes or odd cappings, dodgy brood but I am reluctant to inspect again due to weather.
the brood pattern was ok not patchy.
but when topping the feeder up it was an odd smell.
It was sickly sweet not like other hives. Could be ivy but not sure.
There is EFB about 8 miles away from these bees and some idiots have left supers out for robbing/cleaning.( this caused a row at the association meeting.i called the secretary a cock .) so little help from them now.

I'm reluctant to inspect now due to weather. Bee inspector has finished now also.
I have 2 hives in this area and have refused to move anymore to the site until i know.

other info
these hives don't belong to me i just look after them the farmer bought them in early may.

hive 1 smells odd comb in hive isn't nice a lot looks like it is made of chocolate but i haven't had time to change it due to other problems and lack of knowledge. I was planning on changing comb next spring.
They had thrown some brood out but i thought that was due to starvation as when i looked they had no stores in early august and suffered badly from sprays uptil then.

hive 2 has mainly new comb as it was an AS from hive 1 and has a lot more bees and seems a lot healthier and doesn't smell the same even though it is 2 feet from hive 1. This hive also suffered from sprays and starvation problems but has recovered better.

In all honesty i would struggle to spot efb if they had it.
the hive doesn't smell nasty but it does smell different than any other i own.

Little i can do about it now i guess but i am conserned.

 

[derekm]

i assume you have read http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=7
we had a nasty fright with sac brood earlier in the year.

 

[Nige.Coll]

read similar info yes.
i've only noticed a smell since i stopped inspecting them a few weeks ago.
going to have to inspect them i think regardless of the weather.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Hi Nige.


Simple response: don't touch them - but do give the RBI a call.
It's his/her job to look into these things.

I know you said that the "Bee inspector has finished now also", but this will be the seasonal bee inspector. There will still be a Regional Bee Inspector. In fact, I believe this chap covers your county:

Regional Bee Inspector Keith Morgan
[email protected]
Tel No: 01485 520838
Mobile No: 07919 004215



If this were happening to me, I'd be on the phone first thing in the morning - especially if they're someone else's bees.

Dusty

 

[Chris B]

I wouldn't worry about the smell. EFB would smell bad, not sickly sweet, and you would certainly see visual signs before any smell. Almost certainly ivy.

 

[beeno]

Hi Nige,
Could be Ivy, but it could also be the smell of dead bees. You may have natural die off in the hives this time of the year. Dead bees smell, a slightly sweet fishy smell IMO.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Agree with Chris on this one you're most likely to see EFB before smelling it. But as Dusty - the RBI is a permanent full time post, no harm in giving him a ring soonest - for a chat if nothing more.
Seems like you're better off without your local BKA!

 

[itma]

I wouldn't worry about the smell. EFB would smell bad, not sickly sweet, and you would certainly see visual signs before any smell. Almost certainly ivy.

Ivy does smell a bit like Ivy … so if you can find some with the sun shining on it, have a sniff from an inch or two away.

EFB itself doesn't smell. What does smell is decaying dead larvae that have not been chucked out of the hive. (AFB itself does smell)

My suggestion would be that you should shake a brood frame or two completely free of bees (watch out for Q!) and then take a good critical look at the brood.
You really can't see properly when its covered with bees.
Remove dummy board and maybe an outside frame as well so that you can open up a decently wide slot between frames. Then you can shake the chosen brood frame in the slot (only withdrawing about 1/3 of the frame) without risking bumping adjacent frames. The 'shake' is a downward motion, stopping with a jerk, thereby propelling the bees straight down towards the hive floor.

You said you were reluctant to inspect again due to the weather.
What would a bee inspector do? (Hint: he wouldn't wait to come back on a nice day)
Try and pick your moment to get in there, you don't need a big gap in the weather.

If you shake frames clear and then see ANY brood that looks 'wrong' - don't hesitate to call out the inspector.
But I wouldn't purely on the basis that a hive was "sweet smelling" …

 

[Travelator]

My suggestion would be that you should shake a brood frame or two completely free of bees (watch out for Q!) and then take a good critical look at the brood.

You can't tell just by smelling, you need to look. If you feel happy spending about £10 for peace of mind, you could go equipped with an EFB test kit. That way, if you do find any queasy-looking larvae you can do a full test.

 

[inthewoods]

i have same smell on 2 super's i bought home to clean ,i put it down to the amount of propolis the bee's use to stick every thing down ,i quite like the smell...just a thought....

 

[itma]

... If you feel happy spending about £10 for peace of mind, you could go equipped with an EFB test kit. That way, if you do find any queasy-looking larvae you can do a full test.

I wouldn't suggest bothering with that.
1/ the wait for delivery
2/ it only shows positive if you put in infected larvae - you need to find the dodgy-looking ones to test. If you can't find any manky ones, you probably don't have a problem (or else you are really rubbish at telling the difference between normal healthy brood and brood that has gone 'foul'… ! )

 

[Nige.Coll]

Thanks
I think I am looking for trouble where they may not be any.
I have a little book with lots of pictures of brood diseases in my kit box.
Last inspection the brood in this hive was quite low but all looked nice and white and the right shape.
I saw a capping or two with holes in but after an oh poop moment i looked and there were bees chewing their way out.

This poor hive has had a traumatic year in part caused by my inexperience and some caused by lack of forage and chemicals used on the crops near it.

It does worry me that people have left supers outside to be cleaned when there has been EFB cases found 10 miles away from mine but closer to theirs.
Not sure how far they will go for free food when the area has poor forage.

It probably is ivy nectar being processed but it does stink lol.

I use different gloves and hive tool for this site so if there is anything nasty then it should be confined to those two only.
Only issue may be that there are a lot of bees kept by other people quite close so any disease could cause a lot of damage.

I need to go and weigh them so if it's nice I will probably have a quick look inside I know which frames have brood on not stores so it would be quick and easy.

 

[Swarm]

Nige,
I was standing about six feet away from a large patch of Ivy in full sun today and I was almost gagging with the smell.
Last time I went in my hives to remove excluders, there was one in particular that was really ponging, but not noticeable on the rest.
The chocolate comb sounds like old brood frames.

 

[yeogi75]

hi Nige
if I member right I helped Paul that's gyp with two hive he had been given to him, as the owner no longer wanted them they were five years old without inspections, and the brood was chocolate colour and sweetly smelling which gave us a chemical sweet back of throat taste and smell, little brood sticky mess around , did have reservations on sorting out had thoughts of a fire instead, well all turned out fine when moved onto new coomb and hives, hope all works out for you
terry

 

[BeeJayBee]

One hive smells wrong.
I didn't see any flakes or odd cappings, dodgy brood but I am reluctant to inspect again due to weather.
the brood pattern was ok not patchy.
but when topping the feeder up it was an odd smell.
It was sickly sweet not like other hives. Could be ivy but not sure.
There is EFB about 8 miles away from these bees and some idiots have left supers out for robbing/cleaning.. ...

... hive 1 smells odd comb in hive isn't nice a lot looks like it is made of chocolate but i haven't had time to change it due to other problems and lack of knowledge. I was planning on changing comb next spring.
They had thrown some brood out but i thought that was due to starvation as when i looked they had no stores in early august and suffered badly from sprays uptil then.

Early decay can smell sweet, but so can nectar.

You're concerned enough to ask on the forum, and it's hard to know exactly what you're seeing and what you can smell in this hive without being htere too.

I think you should phone RBI as soon as possible and ask them to take a look. If they don't find anything wrong it will set your mind at ease and you can take these bees into winter without worrying.

They would rather be called out for a false alarm now than be called to inspect a rotting colony in Spring.

 

[madasafish]

The advantage of the Inspectorate is they show you how to use a test kit - and they pay for it...

Free advice and testing - can't beat that...

 

[Floyd]

I had a hive a few years back that completly isolated a frame of Brood towards to wall side, thus causing it to chill.

They were not very fast at cleaning up this mishap (theirs or mine) and this did cause a worrying smell also.

 

[Nige.Coll]

It was nice enough for me to look at the bees today.
I went through the frames containing brood and shook the bees off and had a good look.
No efb signs or anything that looks disease related.
There is however not a great amount of bees in the hive compared to the daughter colony next door.
The daughter colony is a lot stronger I didn't go through just looked how many bees were in there and closed it up as there is no reason to disturb these bees further. Maybe the parent colony hasn't rebuilt as quick due to an older queen who knows.
Parent colony had 5 seems of bees in the hive.
Daughter colony had 7 seems of bees in the hive.
Both hives had foragers coming and going.
Definitely the weakest 2 colonies in my care.

Only thing i can think of doing is putting the weaker colony into a poly nuc that holds 8 frames to try and help them through winter.
The other colony looks ok in the standard box but i will insulate the roof next visit.