EFB in Scotland

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Nice one!

Apparently it is nothing new after all, so we'll stick with English Foul Brood I think .... might be where it came from anyway! (note: I have no knowledge of where it actually did come from)
(note: I have no knowledge of where it actually did come from)

What not Gloucestershire along with Verroa! :leaving:

Gavin am I right in thinking that you have your finger on the pulse north of the border ?

Can you keep us updated with any news you hear.
Sounds a bit like an earlier thread,when it was suggested that Scotland did not have much disease,but also not enough bee inspectors,and the beekeepers don't know what to look for,makes you wonder about these varroa free claims.All the more reason for better education in bee disease recognition,and control,for beekeepers.
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Yes, you are quite right Hivemaker. It is somewhat ironic that we had that discussion.

Mark - yes my finger is on a pulse (my own is running far too fast what with all those accusations of secrecy, and now with Mike's lorry approaching the border ...)

Next time you see him you can tell him that we're still a little short of Nosema ceranae up here if he has any to spare.

Gavin its good to see that you treat my teasing posts in good heart.

I think I have upset Bcrazy again,maybe you could give him a lesson in teasing and being teased.

Have a good weekend
No probs Mark, I'll do my best ... but getting Bcrazy to join in might be beyond even my special powers.

Bcrazy, I seem to recall a post of yours that was concerned with teaching folk to spot EFB. Did I imagine that - and if you did was it on this site?

We updated the report today and so the link posted earlier has stopped working. You can see the updated report and other stuff here:


happy weekend y'all


Have any bees in Polystyrene/Plastic hives been affected in this EFB/AFB outbreak.

Do yo you know what the policy is up there for dealing with bees in these hives?


Hi Steve

Yes they have.

The question was asked yesterday and there was a vague answer that shifted between caustic and washing soda. I think that the guidelines for the inspectors have a cop-out which says 'under the direction of the local environmental health officer' or something like that. I'm pretty sure that our inspectors will be taking advice from the NBU.

AFB is now known from here to Inverness, up the A9 and adjacent valleys. 39 colonies. EFB not so far N but more widespread across Tayside and into Fife and S Aberdeenshire, 170+ colonies counted by the inspectors, more destroyed by some of the commercial guys. And plenty more untouched colonies to keep them busy for weeks.

Unbeknownst to many on here Gavin holds an official position in the SBA. At least I think he does? Do you Gavin?

Given that Gavin is it really fair to cast aspersions at a commercial beekeeper?

Just a thought given that lawyers love a target and I am a SBA member.

PH - yes, I do. In March I took on a role on the Executive.

I don't know why you think that I'm casting anything at any beekeeper. I personally know two beekeepers involved in the outbreak with polyhives, and there is a third I haven't met with polyhives and badly affected, and a couple of others who have polyhives and could be involved. Both of the two polyhive beekeepers I know I happen to get on well with and have total sympathy with their plight, and they know it. They are innocent of any blame in this.

Your comment on lawyers seems totally bizarre in that light.

Beekeepers want to be told what is happening. They also want advice on what to look for and what to do. I'm spending an inordinate amount of time doing just those things, and not once have I - in public - pointed a finger of blame.

I am very sorry to all the B-folk over the boarders that have the dreaded lergies. IF i can help ring me?

Again I ask will there be any compensation out of the 10millon Gov money??

For them that’s interested and don’t know* We had 6 bee inspectors tu-ther day converge on me. Spent all day inspecting bees and gave me the all clear.
Did I not read Varroia is not a recognised class 1 diseases now by DAFRA?
Gavin can we expect a report at some time regards the outbreak ?
Hi Mark

There are little updates regularly going onto the Scottish Beekeepers Association web site. I did a rushed report early on (I think the link is above) to get something out quickly, and the printed version has just fallen onto mats across Scotland, and maybe Leicestershire too.

I'll probably do another report before the next issue of our magazine goes to bed and when it is on our web site I'll let you know.

Mike, thanks for your concern and your offer of help. Are you any good at rifling through apiaries in the hills for the heather at all hours of the day and in all weathers? I'm sure the inspectors could do with the help. Parking will be free, for sure.

The £10m is earmarked for research, as I'm sure you know, not compensation payments.


It would be really useful to know what happens with the poly hives when colonies have EFB and AFB.

It would be really useful for me to know, especially if policy is being made up on the fly.


The most important: change the bee stock in the valley!
Efb is an easy disease.
I understand EFB is treatable?
A case of AFB is not and should be burnt,
Block entrance after dark. Kill bees with petrol though crown board replace roof, dig a hole and burn same night or in the morning BURN THE LOT honey as well replace the earth on top.

Both EFB /AFB! Are said to be treatable by some B folk???
An exemption that is supposed to work? Replace affected hive with a completely NEW hive NEW floor NEW foundation NEW frames NEW feeder NEW crown board. Fill feeder with syrup next day.

“Remove every frame and spray all the bees both sides” with Oxytetracycline?
Shake all bees off the affected combs in front of the new hive.
Feed 24hours after the bacterium spores of AFB can not survive in the bees gut after twenty four hours,

Replace the AFB/EFB frames back into the affected hive and burn the lot supers and honey as above.

Some say burn myself included? Others say treat?

Please read and don’t contradict and confute, nor believe and take for granted, nor to find discourse; but to weigh and consider!
Posting on BEE-L list

The following was posted on the BEE-L list by Murray McGregor

In the current outbreak in Scotland it is the native black stock that
seems most affected.

I am right in the midst of this event and have voluntarily destroyed a
significant number of colonies, and without any doubt whatsoever the
dark native bees were *much* more likely to be symptomatic.

Mongrel stock and carnica stock were almost invariably clear, even in
apiaries with a high concentration of symptomatic colonies. Cannot
comment on Italian as they are of not used in Scotland. ( Lots of bees,
big syrup bill and no honey in our environment if you have Italians.)

In other outfits involved in the outbreak it is worst in some who have
never had a non local bee introduced for 20 yrs or more.

Back to the start of another thread, are the black bees resistant to
varroa more than other types? Not in any significant way. They go down
with it in much the same way as all the other stock we have had or seen.

However they are tough and can cope with our environment more
consistently than other types. In isolation in this part of the country
they tend to revert to a relatively low vigour bee and small winter
clusters are actually a normal with them and are not a negative sign.
These bees often happily overwinter on 20 to 25lb of stores, can take
long confinements, and fly in relatively low temps. Many strains are
quite aggressive ( yes, even pure bred ) and they tend to be swarmy in
hot weather, which makes them a less than ideal bee for many areas.

Black bees were collected in Scotland some time ago at the onset of the
tracheal mite crisis in the USA and were trialled over there at the
time. ( No references I'm afraid, maybe others can come up with them ) I
understand they were a failure in the environment they went to and were
eventually disposed of.

Murray McGregor

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