Dry Bee?

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Wilco 

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Normally bees generate moisture in the cluster and this will follow the same principle as above, leading to condensation on the exterior walls which the bees then drink

Amazing how all these ideas proliferate.

I can just see bees leaving the warmth of the cluster to get moisture,from a very cold hive wall, in the middle of winter. Can you provide evidence? Thought not.

Likely result would be another dead bee. Metabolising sugar creates water and carbon dioxide; honey is 15-20% water; even fondant is about 12% water. Bees don’t really need extra water, until brooding starts, as they are either resting or exercising to produce cluster warmth. So nothing ‘normal’ about it at all.

Most condensation, on the inner walls, will either drain away or pool at the lowest point. Bess retain water for cleansing flights - or the effects can be seen from nosemic colonies with dysentry.
Interesting. We agree on the movement and condensation of water vapour around the hive, the issue being whether bees drink any of that condensation (or need to).

I'm willing to stand corrected on the bees drinking condensation from within the hive as there appears to be a lack of published evidence to back this up (caveat: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence). However you appear incorrect in asserting that 'bees don't really need extra water' over winter based on this paper:


So the rather acerbic 'I can just see bees leaving the warmth of the cluster to get moisture,from a very cold hive wall, in the middle of winter. Can you provide evidence? Thought not.' seems a little frivolous. Not only do they leave the warmth of the cluster, but they will even leave the hive to get water from an arguably colder source than a hive wall, which is significantly further.

Metabolising sugar produces water as a by product in every cell of every organism I can currently think of. Most of those organisms still need significant extraneous water sources to match metabolic and homeostatic needs.
 

madasafish 

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I saw a few bees flying at 5C yesterday. (No they are neither AMM nor local but Carniolans/Buckfast)
 

Arfermo 

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Am hoping the bees in my two hives might imbibe the surplus water in the stream that borders my garden before it overflows the banks - as it does every year. Living in hope hope? Nah. They are miracle workers.
 

Kirbygrip 

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This thread makes me wonder about the storing of bee colonies in a dark temperature regulated barn over harsh winters as is the practise of some commercial beekeepers in Canada.
 

Arfermo 

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This thread makes me wonder about the storing of bee colonies in a dark temperature regulated barn over harsh winters as is the practise of some commercial beekeepers in Canada.
Aren't their winters a bit more extreme that ours? suppose it depends...................................
 

madasafish 

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Aren't their winters a bit more extreme that ours? suppose it depends...................................
-40c at times. .Kills bees I believe.
 

Murox 

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I have found a tried and tested solution for most of the metabolising of sugars and the resultant water vapours, even the condensate can be used.Its all to do with the shape of the hive body. In some quarters it's already caught on . Note the funnel entrance and rounded side walls ensuring any drips of moisture run down the side walls for recycling - now how green is that.
Still.png
 

Finman 

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Normally bees generate moisture in the cluster and this will follow the same principle as above, leading to condensation on the exterior walls which the bees then drink

Amazing how all these ideas proliferate.

I can just see bees leaving the warmth of the cluster to get moisture,from a very cold hive wall, in the middle of winter. Can you provide evidence? Thought not.
Oliver is right. In Finland the hive interrior is so cold, that no individual bee cannot leave the cluster and gk to drink from wall. That id not posdoble.
 

Finman 

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Tom Seeley gave an interesting talk to Scottish beekeepers last year: Thirst of a hive - how honeybees control their water intake. Unfortunately no longer able to view on SBKA website (could view up to sept 21)

What made an impact on me was his research that has shown the most vigorous waggle dances (for water collection) have been observed in observation hives in the depths of winter. Seeley stated bees can become their thirstiest in winter. Specialist water collectors (there is a genetic link) fly down to 4.5C to collect water but below this become thirsty, as even when just subsisting, still need some energy to vibrate Wing muscles to keep core cluster temperature at optimum. So water is needed in the depths of winter to dilute small amounts of honey
About what kind of winter you are talking about.
How do you explain the cellar wintering. Bees are inside the hive 7 months, and they cannot pick water in the dark cellar, because there are no water. Cellar must be about +5C and no water pools. There must be electric ventilation.

Then aroud Polar Circle well insulated hives can be in open fresh air, and bees cannot come out from the hive 7 moths. Bees cannot lick water from cold snow.

Of course bees are willing to pick water in sun shine in spring, if weather temp is +5C.

Summary: bees stay alive half a year in the winter hive without getting water from inner walls or outside.

When we go to south, Hivemaker wrote that his bees foraged pollen in January. He hated oxalic acid dribbling, because his hives had allways brood. Surely they needed water in January then.

Seeley has such winter what he has, and he can describe, how bees forage water in the middle of winter. I have here just now -22C, and temps inside polyhives are minus something. Codensation moisture on walls is frost.
 
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Finman 

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I have found a tried and tested solution for most of the metabolising of sugars and the resultant water vapours, even the condensate can be used.Its all to do with the shape of the hive body. In some quarters it's already caught on . Note the funnel entrance and rounded side walls ensuring any drips of moisture run down the side walls for recycling - now how green is that.
Good heavens... you are burning sugar and you are getting condensation water into the hive?
Is it easier, if you take tap water and give it to bees?
 

Finman 

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When we talk about winter in the Bee World, there are many kind of winters.

Pic from south Finland at 15:00 7.12.2021.
temperature -18C. Latitude 60 degree.
That afternoon sun does not warm much.

During next 10 days we have zero temps, but bees cannot come out. The sun will warm up bees next time in March. Scotland seems to have next week +10C, and surely bees can pick some water.

In Edinburg day is only one hour longer than in my place in Kouvola.

20211207_144219.jpg
 
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thorn 

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It varies.
Jules has temperature and humidity gadgets installed in the hive. I suspect very few of us here have them. Possibly we have a case of too much information causing unnecessary concern, something akin to consulting Dr Google about aches and pains.
 

Finman 

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Jules has temperature and humidity gadgets installed in the hive. I suspect very few of us here have them. Possibly we have a case of too much information causing unnecessary concern, something akin to consulting Dr Google about aches and pains.
What do you do with those gadgets?
Bees do well without those things and without listening, are they alive: knock knock, are you there!
 

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