Drones only

[bpmurray]

I checked my AS hives today. One of them has a little stores and drone cells scattered across the comb. I couldn't see the queen (if any) and didn't see any eggs. Is it safe to try to reunite this with the original hive?

The other hive has no stores, but is absolutely packed with bees - I had to give it a super to contain them. However there were no eggs. I presume the correct approach is a frame of BIAS and feed them - if they start with queen cells, I think I'll just reunite with the original. Does that make sense?

Note that the two original hives are healthy with plenty of brood and stores although neither has started to fill the super yet.

 

[Travelator]

How long ago did you do the artificial swarms, and what type of queen cells did they have? At a guess it was about 2 weeks ago and you need to wait another 1-3 weeks for the virgins to get mated and start laying.

 

[Finman]

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Is it possible that in another part workers have emerged and only drones are unemerged because they have longer cycle?

 

[bpmurray]

OK, the dates ... AS performed on 1-May for both. I kept one good swarm QC in both hives, but actually missed one in the one with drones and that swarmed just over a week ago, presumably with one queen. I suppose it's possible that she just up & left the other bees queenless, but that just seems odd, so I'm assuming that there was a Queen left who didn't mate correctly, hence the drones. I think I'll have to see eggs to identify if it's a DLQ or worker, or, of course, a queen.

I actually kept a couple of frames in a nuc just in case, and she's laying happily now. Could I unite her with one of these hives?

 

[MuswellMetro]

OK, the dates ... AS performed on 1-May for both. I kept one good swarm QC in both hives, but actually missed one in the one with drones and that swarmed just over a week ago, presumably with one queen. I suppose it's possible that she just up & left the other bees queenless, but that just seems odd, so I'm assuming that there was a Queen left who didn't mate correctly, hence the drones. I think I'll have to see eggs to identify if it's a DLQ or worker, or, of course, a queen.

I actually kept a couple of frames in a nuc just in case, and she's laying happily now. Could I unite her with one of these hives?

rather diffuclt to understand what you are saying and i think you are over thinking

1) Did you split the "original hive" into 2 hives A) Q+ on foundation with no Qcell and B) Qcell in old hive on the 1st of May
2) the Queen+ A) hive on foundation swarmed about the 18th May?

or are you saying the swarm came from the B) Qcell in old hive

 

[Travelator]

OK, if I've understood it right, you split a colony 3 ways on May 1st. The "parent" queenright colony is now in a nuc and in good condition.

There is a "no drones" child colony (presumably no brood of any kind) - probably worth waiting at least another week to see if it comes good.

The "drones only" child colony - this is a bit odd, as the books say all the drone brood should have emerged by now if the last eggs were laid 28 days ago, but beekeeping isn't an exact science! If they swarmed 11 days ago, there is most likely a new queen left which emerged around that time, so again, worth waiting another week at least.

 

[bpmurray]

rather diffuclt to understand what you are saying and i think you are over thinking

1) Did you split the "original hive" into 2 hives A) Q+ on foundation with no Qcell and B) Qcell in old hive on the 1st of May
2) the Queen+ A) hive on foundation swarmed about the 18th May?

or are you saying the swarm came from the B) Qcell in old hive

Sorry if I'm not clear ...

• I did 2 x AS on 1-May, i.e. I split 2 hives.
• The original Q+ hives are thriving
• I also put a couple of frames with a QC in a nuc, in case anything went wrong, and that's got eggs now - I expect they'll hatch tomorrow (or even perhaps today).
• According to my calculations, the queens would have emerged around 14-May
• One of the Q- hives actually had 2 QCs since I missed one, and that lost a swarm just over a week ago. This is the hive with the Drone brood and a few unsealed drone grubs, although I didn't see eggs. I think I need to understand if there's a DLQ or a laying worker. If the former, I'll kill her and reunite with the original hive. If the latter, I have absolutely no idea what to do - should I just dump the bees?
• The other Q- hive is now busting with bees but has no eggs and no stores. I was too late to feed today, but I plan on putting in a frame of BIAS and feeding with 1:1 syrup tomorrow. If they draw QCs, I'll unite with the nuc which has a laying queen on only 3 frames of bees.

Hopefully that's clear. I'm looking for some advice on whether my plans make sense or not, and what on earth to do with the drone laying hive.

Edit: Of course it's possible that the swarmed queen was a DLQ, and the unsealed grubs and sealed drones are hers - the timing works for that. If that's the case, I suppose I should put a frame of eggs into that hive too, to see what happens.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Sorry if I'm not clear ...

• I did 2 x AS on 1-May, i.e. I split 2 hives.
• The original Q+ hives are thriving
• I also put a couple of frames with a QC in a nuc, in case anything went wrong, and that's got eggs now - I expect they'll hatch tomorrow (or even perhaps today).
• According to my calculations, the queens would have emerged around 14-May
• One of the Q- hives actually had 2 QCs since I missed one, and that lost a swarm just over a week ago. This is the hive with the Drone brood and a few unsealed drone grubs, although I didn't see eggs. I think I need to understand if there's a DLQ or a laying worker. If the former, I'll kill her and reunite with the original hive. If the latter, I have absolutely no idea what to do - should I just dump the bees?
• The other Q- hive is now busting with bees but has no eggs and no stores. I was too late to feed today, but I plan on putting in a frame of BIAS and feeding with 1:1 syrup tomorrow. If they draw QCs, I'll unite with the nuc which has a laying queen on only 3 frames of bees.

Hopefully that's clear. I'm looking for some advice on whether my plans make sense or not, and what on earth to do with the drone laying hive.

Edit: Of course it's possible that the swarmed queen was a DLQ, and the unsealed grubs and sealed drones are hers - the timing works for that. If that's the case, I suppose I should put a frame of eggs into that hive too, to see what happens.

thanks that's clearer

so the drone hive queen would have been made from 1/2 day larvea on the 1st she would have emegered on the 11/12th may not the 14th as the carged cell is at least 4/5 days old on the 1st may but they could also have made an emegency queen cell from an egg laid on the 30th april so that would emegerged on the 16th and off out with a caste swarm on the 20th

however that dont account for the drone cells and uncapped larvea unless you chose an older charged cell....day 7 not 4/5 then the first queen would have emeerged on the 9th may then...hmmmmm 6-8 days to mate two days of flights, starting to lay two days later, so eggs on the 20th,,,,all very tight, mine take much longer but your other hives have eggs

so eggs laid on the 20th now capped and drones, if you are lucky they are first misfires as she start laying and getting use to fertilising her eggs, give her a few weeks and see what happens as young queen can misfire and lay drones first

 

[bpmurray]

OK, on the Q- with no eggs or brood, I added a frame of BIAS and fed 1:1 syrup. If they draw a QC, I'll keep that in an apidea, and unite the hive with the Q+ nuc.

For the other Q- with drone brood, I'll wait a few days to see what happens. I hear conflicting advice - throw them out seems to be the consensus.

 

[YorkshireBees]

I would just add in my own experience of making up Nucs with QC's I tend to leave them completely alone for 4-6 Weeks minimum as there is nothing to be gained in looking at them.

Even if / when the Q is mated and starts laying you need to wait till the brood is sealed to be sure she has mated before doing anything else.

 

[bpmurray]

At this point I'm pretty sure what the situation is:

• I have a healthy nuc - 3 frames of eggs/larvae but nothing sealed yet.
• I gave a frame of eggs to a suspected Q- hive and they have started drawing QCs
• I have a hive with a definite DLQ - eggs in drone comb, drone brood spotted all over

My plan for the suspected Q- hive is to give it a few days until the nuc has sealed brood, and then unite the two, marking the nuc queen too. I'll probably steal the QCs for apideas, but otherwise I'll leave them at it. My questions for this are:

• Is this a reasonable plan?
• Is it safe to assume that the hive definitely is Q-? I haven't seen HRH and they built QCs straight away.
• How long before I shuffle the frames and merge the brood boxes?

For the DLQ hive, I have no idea what to do. Advice ranges from just dumping them to giving them a frame of eggs. So the questions are:

• What on earth can I do with it?
• Is it recoverable or should I just give up now?

 

[Finman]

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What is DLQ ?

If you move the hive 10 meters, and you put a new hive on old site and one frame which has little bit brood, DLQ bees will move to the new hive . That DL Queen will stay in the new place. Now you have sieved away that laying bug.

Then join it with laying nuc that nuc get forces.

 

[bpmurray]

.
What is DLQ ?

If you move the hive 10 meters, and you put a new hive on old site and one frame which has little bit brood, DLQ bees will move to the new hive . That DL Queen will stay in the new place. Now you have sieved away that laying bug.

Then join it with laying nuc that nuc get forces.

You make it sound so simple - kiitos! I'll try that.