Drone-laying Workers update and query

[Voltemand]

LATEST UPDATE 20 August, One of the nucs went queen-laying. They killed a Buckfast a few days after after I had made them - though I did give them access immediately on insertion (via candy entrance). I searched for a queen for some time after, and gave them a redundant laying queen, whom they also killed in the cage two days later. Lay appeared in nuc and seemed normal, but no queen, much lay, now all drone. I will scatter them when I am sure all my hives have laying queens.

So my original question remains. How soon does a nuc or hive go drone-laying, and is there a way to recognise when it has?

 

[Midland Beek]

1/ If bees kill a queen that is caged it usually means they have a queen already. Bees are not that clever ... they will kill a 'good' queen in a cage in preference for their own drone laying queen.

2/ You need to read about drone laying queens and laying workers. It is useful to know how to tell the difference.

 

[drstitson]

agree with the above. There was a queen present before you tried introducing.

what is the story with the nuc? when set up. when queen expected to have emerged? when you started trying introduction. why/how you deemed the nuc to be queenless.

 

[Voltemand]

As in previous thread, Nuc made on 28th July, expecting queens on 29th. They were delayed for a week, and advice was that it wouldn't matter. It did.

So questions remain.

1. How long before workers go drone-laying when hopelessly queenless.

2. I can identify drone-laying worker activity by pattern of egg-lay. But can I identify and eradicate drone-laying workers, or do I have to abandon and shake out the whole nuc? And are there more than one drone-layers?

 

[Hivemaker.]

So questions remain.

1. How long before workers go drone-laying when hopelessly queenless.

2. I can identify drone-laying worker activity by pattern of egg-lay. But can I identify and eradicate drone-laying workers, or do I have to abandon and shake out the whole nuc? And are there more than one drone-layers?

Some can go laying worker in a week,some can take a few weeks.

There are several laying workers,best way to cure is a process of adding frames of brood over a period of weeks.

Read link below.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

 

[Meg]

Voltemand,

Sounds like you have a drone laying queen in your nuc, not laying workers. You say it has all turned into drone brood, which tends not to happen with laying workers. This would explain the killing of introduced queens.

Whatever yu do with them now, you need to find and kill that queen first, otherwise any combinations or additional introductions will just jeopardise yet another good queen.

Meg

 

[drstitson]

as per previous posts.

you have a queen in-situ - albeit a DLQ.

you do not have laying workers.

you need to find the queen and remove before introducing another.

 

[Voltemand]

I'm not planning to use this nuc for queen introduction. 2 killed queens, even if one was redundant, is two too many.

Only just seen these 2 latest posts. If I can't find a queen in 5 visits on only 5 frames, or a queen-cell she was born from, then perhaps I should take up a different hobby. I'll check again on my next trip to the Apiary, and let you know (or say goodbye).

 

[drstitson]

firstly - workers can make a very neat job of taking down emerged queen cells such that one may never know they've been there.

secondly - in such queen critical situations an "inspection" is not what is needed. if queen can't be found on detailed inspection then sieving through a QE probably next best approach.

 

[onriver]

I'm not sure you do have a queen. Laying workers will produce enough queen pheromone via their brood (which will inevitably be drones, I always thought?!) to incite the bees to kill any introduced queen so I'd say that if there isn't a queen when you next inspect then stop looking and just get rid of that nuc - at least nearby hives will get the benefit of those bees and it's getting late in the season now...

 

[eric]

Laying workers will kill a introduced queen no messing

 

[Voltemand]

Thanks, onriver. That was my plan once I'm sure all my re-queening is successful. But I'll report back to the Forum.

 

[Voltemand]

Thanks Onriver. That's what I have in mind once of completed my various queen introductions elsewhere - better safe than sorry.

No queen on today's inspection still - though 2 sealed queencells.

I assume they d
o they do this even though they can't possibly make a queen?

 

[Voltemand]

Sorry all. These are in the wrong thread.

 

[kazmcc]

If you do need to find the queen, I have been advised to split the frames, have a cuppa then go back. The tetchy group you can ignore. It reduces the amount of frames you need to search. Good luck

 

[Voltemand]

Thanks Onriver. That's what I have in mind once of completed my various queen introductions elsewhere - better safe than sorry.

No queen on today's inspection still - though 2 sealed queencells.

I assume they d
o they do this even though they can't possibly make a queen?

 

[onriver]

I've found them still trying to raise queens, though haven't seen it go all the way to sealed queen cells, IMHO. I suggest it doesn't change the plan, though, unfortunately

 

[Voltemand]

OOh Look! There's a page 2! Doh.

Sorry for the repetition.

 

[Bryanthebee]

laying workers

I had laying workers last year, they also killed the caged queen, just shake out, place a different working hive on the same site.

make sure you smoke them before you shake them out, so they have stores to take back to the new hive so they can gain entre.

any laying workers will stay on the ground with some workers, you will have a couple of hundred losses.

This is the best way to sort this out that i found so i was not waiting for the bees to do something which may never happen.

This is a suggestion and not a statment of fact, you will choose what is best for you good luck.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

any laying workers will stay on the ground with some workers

I think this is a bit of a myth - nothing to stop them flying I'm aware of. The reason for shaking them out in front of other hives is that they will simply find homes in other Q+ colonies - see the Bush Farms link in Hivemakers post