Drone brood in the top super

[Beagle23]

So 'Harriet' the second of my star queens is acting a bit weird.During inspection today I observed the following

Brood box - 70 mixed brood, 10% stores, 20% empty

1st Super - 50% mixed brood, 30% stores, 20% empty

2nd Super - 80% stores, 20% empty

3rd super 10% stores, 80% drone brood, 10% empty

What the Jimney is she playing at? My understanding is that a queen lays only below the honey stores. But I saw her at it today, laying eggs in the 3rd super. She looks healthy and there are no obstructions preventing her from heading into the lower boxes.

Any ideas?

 

[Millet]

So 'Harriet' the second of my star queens is acting a bit weird.During inspection today I observed the following

Brood box - 70 mixed brood, 10% stores, 20% empty

1st Super - 50% mixed brood, 30% stores, 20% empty

2nd Super - 80% stores, 20% empty

3rd super 10% stores, 80% drone brood, 10% empty

What the Jimney is she playing at? My understanding is that a queen lays only below the honey stores. But I saw her at it today, laying eggs in the 3rd super. She looks healthy and there are no obstructions preventing her from heading into the lower boxes.

Any ideas?

Queen excluder..

 

[Beagle23]

Queen excluder..

I put her back in the brood box but haven't added a QE yet. I'm just curious as to why she's doing it, seems odd

 

[Murox]

Are all the brood occupied frames "on top" of each other sort of like a chimney?

 

[Beagle23]

Are all the brood occupied frames "on top" of each other sort of like a chimney?

Yep, but with the exception of the 2nd super which is almost exclusively stores

 

[Millet]

If she has little space to lay in any part of the hive she will go to the next available space maybe clear some of the stores out of the brood box and put some drawn empty frames in place of them.

 

[Murox]

Yep, but with the exception of the 2nd super which is almost exclusively stores

You can read up why its happened . Millet has hinted strongly that one of the reasons is to do with drawn comb.

 

[bingevader]

We don't use queen excluders and they tend to work it out for themselves eventually.
If the eventually bit is an issue, then maybe think about going back to QEs.
On the odd occasion that we've left an eke on too long after some winter fondant, you can almost guarantee that it will be filled with brace comb full of drone brood.

 

[eltalia]

Here goes...
Invaribly the higher the stack the "fuller" the bottom box will be with brood, and also
the narrowness (sharpness?) of the end of the cone in height, eventually.
In 3D view a cone of brood is built from the lowest to the highest, size and shape
depends wholly on airpaths within the stack, those areas formed as "warm side cold
side". The build is best seen as so in tree hollows, entrance location dependent.
Bees in a box build around airpaths set by the overall design, many factors in that not
least of which is the sq.area of ventilation allowed for inlet and exhaust air.
So it is there will be many reported variations.
The job in management for the b'keep is to decide on outcomes they wish to best
provide the tools for bees to achieve and work their apiary around that, uniformly.
Running differing configs or indeed widey differing genetics is going to create anomalys
in the apiary under the same climate and forage paramaters.

Bill

 

[Beagle23]

Here goes...
Invaribly the higher the stack the "fuller" the bottom box will be with brood, and also
the narrowness (sharpness?) of the end of the cone in height, eventually.
In 3D view a cone of brood is built from the lowest to the highest, size and shape
depends wholly on airpaths within the stack, those areas formed as "warm side cold
side". The build is best seen as so in tree hollows, entrance location dependent.
Bees in a box build around airpaths set by the overall design, many factors in that not
least of which is the sq.area of ventilation allowed for inlet and exhaust air.
So it is there will be many reported variations.
The job in management for the b'keep is to decide on outcomes they wish to best
provide the tools for bees to achieve and work their apiary around that, uniformly.
Running differing configs or indeed widey differing genetics is going to create anomalys
in the apiary under the same climate and forage paramaters.

Bill

Not sure what any of that has to do with what I posted, but thanks anyway

 

[Beagle23]

Thanks for the responses. I'm not going with a QE for now but may have to if she repeats this months laying pattern. I'll move some stores and the super order around

 

[eltalia]

Not sure what any of that has to do with what I posted, but thanks anyway

As this is the "Beginners" of the forum I'll tell you directly.
BEES control where the queen lays, not her herself.
BEES make those decisions/choices around what is provided
and whichever mode the colony is in -
Establishment/Survival/Expansion/Reproduction(replication)
all of which are controlled by environmental inputs.

This feature of the biology is bonded to the fact the queen
is not equipped to housekeep cells nor feed brood, that
tasking is solely the responsibility (word?) of the various
castes of bees post emergence, and prior to
forage/storage/defence.
This is very basic knowledge, knowledge required before even
setting a colony to a stack _after_ growing out (developing)
the broodnest in the broodchamber.
Clear?

Bill

 

[Beagle23]

As this is the "Beginners" of the forum I'll tell you directly.
BEES control where the queen lays, not her herself.
BEES make those decisions/choices around what is provided
and whichever mode the colony is in -
Establishment/Survival/Expansion/Reproduction(replication)
all of which are controlled by environmental inputs.

This feature of the biology is bonded to the fact the queen
is not equipped to housekeep cells nor feed brood, that
tasking is solely the responsibility (word?) of the various
castes of bees post emergence, and prior to
forage/storage/defence.
This is very basic knowledge, knowledge required before even
setting a colony to a stack _after_ growing out (developing)
the broodnest in the broodchamber.
Clear?

Bill

I understand the way a colony works, but I don't understand why you're telling me about brood cones, when I make it clear in my post that this is not what's happening in this particular colony.
I'm laying out a situation where the behaviour is abnormal and you're telling me what is normal. I already know what's normal which is why my curiosity is peaked by the unusual laying pattern.

 

[Anduril]

Have you bought or been sent drone super foundation by mistake?

 

[enrico]

Have you bought or been sent drone super foundation by mistake?

Oh good one.....many years ago been there and done that!
Given some brood shallow comb which I forgot about until I had a super full of drones!!!!
Never touch the stuff now!
E

 

[eltalia]

I understand the way a colony works, but I don't understand why you're telling me about brood cones, when I make it clear in my post that this is not what's happening in this particular colony.
I'm laying out a situation where the behaviour is abnormal and you're telling me what is normal. I already know what's normal which is why my curiosity is peaked by the unusual laying pattern.

The situation you are seeing is not abnormal where that basic knowledge is
n0t applied in 'growing' a stack.
Nobody - so far - knows when you put the top level of combs on, however
we (royal) do know bees are not going to uncap stores to set for brood when
they can simply move the queen up, short term.

In simple terms what is happening is exactly an outcome of n0t using an
excluder as part of manipulations in supering up. The b'keep takes a chance
on their judgement and more often than not this is what happens - you're actually
'lucky' it is only drone brood.

Bill

 

[Beagle23]

Have you bought or been sent drone super foundation by mistake?

Good idea, but in this instance no

 

[Beagle23]

The situation you are seeing is not abnormal where that basic knowledge is
n0t applied in 'growing' a stack.
Nobody - so far - knows when you put the top level of combs on, however
we (royal) do know bees are not going to uncap stores to set for brood when
they can simply move the queen up, short term.

In simple terms what is happening is exactly an outcome of n0t using an
excluder as part of manipulations in supering up. The b'keep takes a chance
on their judgement and more often than not this is what happens - you're actually
'lucky' it is only drone brood.

Bill

OK gotcha, thanks Bill