Double brood to prevent swarming

[bees knees]

I use single national brood boxes but have had a pretty swarmy time this year. My bees were from swarms collected last year so in part they may be a swarmy variety but I know I have not managed them as well as I could have. Lets just say its been a steep learning curve.
I'm planning to be much more vigilant next year and also to super up faster.
I've been reading David cramp's book - he generally seems to give good sensible advice. He suggests using double brood - partly for extra space - but also suggests regularly swapping the 2 brood boxes round (every couple of weeks in swarming season) to keep them moving upwards into some space.
What do people think about this suggestion? Anyone practice this? My main concern would be the extra risk of squishing/losing the queen each time the boxes are removed/replaced on the mesh floor.
Look forward to hearing your comments. I've not checked in for a long time but just spent a few happy hours catching up now I have discovered tapatalk for my idevice. Good to see the same old faces and enthusiastic debates!

 

[drstitson]

Finman does, i think.

 

[Swarm]

I do that. I have one particular colony that gets very big, it started the season on five frames of brood at the beginning of May and by mid July was double brood with four supers and had also supplied three nucs. Rotation seems to help by keeping them busy but they will still bring on queen cells if they feel like it (hence the three nucs)

This lot didn't make much attempt at swarming though, despite building the cells.

 

[masterBK]

The Demaree system of swarm prevention : George Demaree explained it all in the american bee journal in 1892.
He wrote
"I begin with the strongest colonies and transfer the combs containing brood to an upper story above the queen excluder. One comb containing some unsealed brood and eggs is left in the brood chamber as a start for the queen. I fill out the brood chamber with empty combs. Full frames of foundation may be used in the absence of drawn combs. The colony thus has all of its brood and the queen, but the queen has a new brood nest below the excluder, while the combs of brood are in the super. In twenty- one days all the brood will be hatched out of the combs above the excluder, and the bees will begin to hatch in the queen’s chamber below the excluder, so a continuous succession of young bees is sustained”

Beekeepers these days tend to use a modified form of this system with supers between the two brood chambers
.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

The Demaree system of swarm prevention : George Demaree explained it all in the american bee journal in 1892.
He wrote
"I begin with the strongest colonies and transfer the combs containing brood to an upper story above the queen excluder. One comb containing some unsealed brood and eggs is left in the brood chamber as a start for the queen. I fill out the brood chamber with empty combs. Full frames of foundation may be used in the absence of drawn combs. The colony thus has all of its brood and the queen, but the queen has a new brood nest below the excluder, while the combs of brood are in the super. In twenty- one days all the brood will be hatched out of the combs above the excluder, and the bees will begin to hatch in the queen’s chamber below the excluder, so a continuous succession of young bees is sustained”

Beekeepers these days tend to use a modified form of this system with supers between the two brood chambers
.

Is it Possible to do this using 2 supers instead of the top brood box?

 

[oliver90owner]

Is it Possible to do this using 2 supers instead of the top brood box

How will you fit deep frames into shallows?


MBK,

George forgot there might have been some brood drone in there?

 

[masterBK]

George forgot there might have been some brood drone in there?
------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why most people use a board with a top entrance (between the top super and the broodchamber and which has other advantages as well as letting the drones out). Snelgrove developed his swarm control system and his mutliple entrance board based on the Demaree system.

 

[oliver90owner]

I 2as simply referring to the three weeks (21 days) tie scale. Nothing else.

RAB

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

Is it Possible to do this using 2 supers instead of the top brood box

How will you fit deep frames into shallows?

I was asking if they would be deep enough together to take the place of a brood box.
As my computer is in the attic, not the apiary in garden, it seemed more sensible to ask here rather than climb down two flights of stairs, go down to the garden with the tape measure then climb back up two flights of stairs to suggest it.

But I forgot that it is possible to answer without taking time to read properly what has been written, especially if someone is trying to do it on an I phone.

 

[Goran]

I work with langstroth ( same boxes), as usually said here one box too little and two boxes too much to leave them on their free disposal..
So here starts beekeeping variations.. But main goal for me to achieve to have as much as I can brood 20 days before main forage. Sealed brood is lifting above in second, third box and keeping them busy with foundations and a empty frames to don't think of swarming. Roughly said how I learned to work, and until I get more experienced I won't change it. For my climate conditions is OK.
Now QE are out and BB on top ( two boxes winter configuration).. Waiting for winter..

 

[Finman]

Finman does, i think.

I do not use excluder. I know nothing about those things.
My queens may lay as much as they like and where they want. Main thing is that they lay much. Otherwise I change them.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

I work with langstroth ( same boxes), as usually said here one box too little and two boxes too much to leave them on their free disposal..
So here starts beekeeping variations.. But main goal for me to achieve to have as much as I can brood 20 days before main forage. Sealed brood is lifting above in second, third box and keeping them busy with foundations and a empty frames to don't think of swarming. Roughly said how I learned to work, and until I get more experienced I won't change it. For my climate conditions is OK.
Now QE are out and BB on top ( two boxes winter configuration).. Waiting for winter..

Mmmm. That makes sense to me. I left a super on top of BB last winter no QE. to allow free access to stores. When I removed it and put in the QE. and super-ed on top they made multiple Q cells. I want to avoid that next year so thought a couple of supers with BB frames might do the trick as I have plenty that I can make up over the winter but no spare BB.

 

[oliver90owner]

I was asking if they would be deep enough together to take the place of a brood box

so thought a couple of supers with BB frames might do the trick as I have plenty

Think here the development of Langstroth - bee space. Deep frames will not fit shallows. Simple basic beekeeping.

 

[yeogi75]

Mmmm. That makes sense to me. I left a super on top of BB last winter no QE. to allow free access to stores. When I removed it and put in the QE. and super-ed on top they made multiple Q cells. I want to avoid that next year so thought a couple of supers with BB frames might do the trick as I have plenty that I can make up over the winter but no spare BB.

i think the experienced beeks on here are getting confused about the configuration you are contemplating.
two empty super boxes with one set brood frames inside them, if you do there will be quite a difference in bee space, i suggest if that is your only option put below brood box so the bigger gap is at the bottom, why not go brood and super ie brood and half

 

[Swarm]

Wait for the sales and pick up a couple of 'deal' brood boxes.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

i think the experienced beeks on here are getting confused about the configuration you are contemplating.
two empty super boxes with one set brood frames inside them, if you do there will be quite a difference in bee space, i suggest if that is your only option put below brood box so the bigger gap is at the bottom, why not go brood and super ie brood and half

Would it be easy to check them with super under brood?

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

I was asking if they would be deep enough together to take the place of a brood box

so thought a couple of supers with BB frames might do the trick as I have plenty

Think here the development of Langstroth - bee space. Deep frames will not fit shallows. Simple basic beekeeping.

Never mind we obviously don't speak the same language and i am too tired to bother di-secting every bit of every post.

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

I do not use excluder. I know nothing about those things.
My queens may lay as much as they like and where they want. Main thing is that they lay much. Otherwise I change them.

How do the queens lay anywhere they want and you get huge returns of honey? Do you start with queen laying in a box and add boxes under her as the colony grows?

 

[yeogi75]

margret
put super on top of brood with super frames in,or two supers under brood box with brood frames in,

 

[Swarm]

If you are going to go brood and half it's far easier to shove the half underneath. You will probably not have to bother inspecting below until/unless cells are being built so inspections remain very much the same.