Does supercedure consist of just one QC?

[warts]

I know I should know this, but after inspecting one hive today, I saw a large well formed QC slap in the middle of a frame of brood. I have assumed that this is supercedure.

I ask because on the last frame there appeared to be what looked like two QCs adjacent to each other (sorry , no photos), again, in the middle of the frame. But nothing else that I could see anywhere else on any of the frames, e.g. bottom, side (where I often tend to find them).

Not had this before, ie so few QCs, so conscious that I could be misinterpreting what I am seeing., or more likely, seeing what I want to see.

There is BIAS on 7 frames (give or take a few patches of stores empty spaces from brood that has possibly emerged (I am assuming waiting for the next lot of eggs).

There is space to lay and plenty of space in the supers. Lots of OSR coming in...not surprising as it is approx 8’ from my hives.

The top and bottom of it is I removed the two adjacent QCs on the last frame, but left the one on its own on a frame in the middle. I hope I have interpreted it correctly. But just curious to know if supercedure can involve more than one QC or if the bees are just toying with me.

 

[enrico]

Nothing is set in stone. USUALLY one queen cell in the centre of a frame indicates supercedure, but I believe supercedure is actually rarer than many people on this forum make out!
It is a risk you take. Bees need to swarm. It is their way of reproducing and we all know how strong that urge is!!!!
E

 

[warts]

Well, I did wonder. Fun and games ahead, then, unless I can sort it out before they do.

Thanks Enrico.

 

[beeno]

Had the most beautiful capped QC you could imagine one year with queen still there. It was a dud and 3 weeks later they swarmed on two new QCs! Keep on top of it!

 

[Finman]

Best swarming time.

I have found quite often that the colony starts with couple of queen cells, and perhaps a week later it makes normal amount of swarm cells 10-15.

I see it from the age of pupae.

Colony's brood frames are not many. Perhaps the queen is not a good layer.

 

[Poly Hive]

Supercedure depends a lot on what strain of bee one has. In Amm it can be quite common for instance. I used to have some 60% sup on the heather and as they were clipped and marked it was obvious in spring.

Now I am running Carniolians and it does not occur.

PH

 

[warts]

Had the most beautiful capped QC you could imagine one year with queen still there. It was a dud and 3 weeks later they swarmed on two new QCs! Keep on top of it!

Will do.

Thank you Beeno.

 

[warts]

Best swarming time.

I have found quite often that the colony starts with couple of queen cells, and perhaps a week later it makes normal amount of swarm cells 10-15.

I see it from the age of pupae.

Colony's brood frames are not many. Perhaps the queen is not a good layer.

Thank you Finman. Am going to have another look and a think about how to proceed with this hive.

 

[warts]

Supercedure depends a lot on what strain of bee one has. In Amm it can be quite common for instance. I used to have some 60% sup on the heather and as they were clipped and marked it was obvious in spring.

Now I am running Carniolians and it does not occur.

PH

Hi Poly Hive

I think mine are now a Heinz 57 variety. Original lot bought from T*****s, quite orange and to me, seemed pretty chilled (compared to what they were a few years later). Did like to swarm a lot, but think that was more me not picking up on the signs sooner rather than them being swarmy.
However now, apart from the odd few, nowhere near as many are orange - so assuming either integrated much more with the locals or possibly there was a genetic mix in the first place that is now starting to poke through more (if that is likely...).

Interesting, though, that there is such variation in bee types.

Thank you

 

[SDM]

I seem to have accidentally come up with queens that are choosing to supersede. 4 out of 6 in one apiary and 5 out of 8 in another inspected today have 1 sealed cell m ( 2 colonies have 2 adjacent sealed cells) original queens are still present and laying well. Hives are certainly up to swarming strength, double brood , 2 supers bees on virtually every frame. Drone frames being capped for the 2nd time. From a management perspective I'll take suoercedure over swarming any day. But it has made me wonder since i hadnt selected for the trait ,if maybe the bees know something about the coming season that we dont.

 

[Bosleeu]

Perhaps: Clip your existing Queen, destroy one queencell. If they want to swarm you are likely to loose your old queen but retain your bees with the new queen. If they want to supercede they will, with the same result. If the queencell is a dud, you still have the old queen.

Just a thought.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Poly Hive]

I should have said that mine superceded on the moors not before. So late July through Sept.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Before doing anything, do check for eggs. A virgin supercedure queen may be present and that cell now has a dead queen inside.

Better to split off that queen cell to a nuc, as insurance, perhaps.

RAB

 

[Finman]

Basic idea is that you must stop this game. Bees want to change the queen. Killing the queen cell you have soon a new one.

You cannot save the old queen. If the hive swarms, the loss is not very big in the small hive.

 

[Eyeman]

I seem to have accidentally come up with queens that are choosing to supersede. 4 out of 6 in one apiary and 5 out of 8 in another inspected today have 1 sealed cell m ( 2 colonies have 2 adjacent sealed cells) original queens are still present and laying well. Hives are certainly up to swarming strength, double brood , 2 supers bees on virtually every frame. Drone frames being capped for the 2nd time. From a management perspective I'll take suoercedure over swarming any day. But it has made me wonder since i hadnt selected for the trait ,if maybe the bees know something about the coming season that we dont.

I'd be interested to hear from you how many of those colonies actually swarm despite only throwing up one or two queen cells. I've had colonies swarm before on what I took to be a supersdure situation especially during the 'swarming season'.
As has already been said clipping the queen will mean any swarm wont be far away from the hive.

 

[Madge]

I seem to have accidentally come up with queens that are choosing to supersede. ...

Hooray. At least one correct spelling for ‘supersede’, or ‘supersedure’.

 

[jeff33]

On inspection yesterday I found a hive with 3 capped cells on different frames and old queen still there laying. The hive has been slow building up so I am gambling on supercede rather than swarm. I have used the opportunity to set up a 3 frame nuc with 1 of the QC.

 

[SDM]

I'd be interested to hear from you how many of those colonies actually swarm despite only throwing up one or two queen cells. I've had colonies swarm before on what I took to be a supersdure situation especially during the 'swarming season'.
As has already been said clipping the queen will mean any swarm wont be far away from the hive.

Me too. They're all clipped so no worries there and I'll still be checking them weekly. The cells were mostly at the extremities of the nest, Bottom of outside frame lower brood box or at the side of an outside frame upper box. Only one from memory central on a mid frame upper box. Nothing beyond play cups in other hives so far and all are 1st year queens. No interest yet in bait hives at these locations either. I'll let you know how it progresses.

 

[Stiffy]

Must say apart from winter supersedure, which seemed to have happened on quite a few colonies over the last winter, I don't trust a hive with a single queen cell. Unless its a hive that has performed extremely well, I 'usually' knock out the initial cell and see if they make another attempt, if they do, I replace with a laying queen.
S

 

[Finman]

, if they do, I replace with a laying queen.
S

Yeah... To take a daughter from the most miserable hive is not a good practice.
.
Buy a new laying queen.