Dipel df as a preventative

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sean-a 

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I was wondering if I could spray new frames with Dipel as a prophylactic treatment against wax moth.
Any views?
 

Ian123 

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Why are not the bees a preventative.
 

pargyle 

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I wouldn't ... I use Dipel to protect stored frames over winter and it has worked well for two years.. if the frames are going into a hive with a strong colony (or just a healthy normal one) the bees will deal with any wax moth invasion - if you are getting wax moths in an inhabited hive (unusual but not unheard of) you need to look at why.

Use it as intended - for protecting your stored frames - a job it does very well.
 

B+. 

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I was wondering if I could spray new frames with Dipel as a prophylactic treatment against wax moth.
Any views?
I had never heard of "Dipel" so I had to look it up. It turns out that it's a brand name for a type of bacillus thuringiensis which produces proteins that are toxic to the larvae of different insect species. Of course, you wouldn't want one that was toxic to honeybee larvae so you'd have to find one that was specific to wax-moth larvae. As others have said, a strong colony will do just as good a job, so, I wouldn't use it myself.
 

pargyle 

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I had never heard of "Dipel" so I had to look it up. It turns out that it's a brand name for a type of bacillus thuringiensis which produces proteins that are toxic to the larvae of different insect species. Of course, you wouldn't want one that was toxic to honeybee larvae so you'd have to find one that was specific to wax-moth larvae. As others have said, a strong colony will do just as good a job, so, I wouldn't use it myself.
It's very similar to Certan B401 but an awful lot less expensive and works the same way ... used correctly on stored frames it stops wax moth damage by killing the larvae - no harm to the bees at all when you re-use the frames and no apparent resistance from the bees from putting brood into the cells. If there was a problem the bees would be sensitive to it. As I sadi earlier, I have used it over two winters now with total success.
 

Erichalfbee 

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Interesting thread here with an explanation of how the stuff works
 

sean-a 

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My thinking was that if I sprayed the frames when I made them up it might give the frames permanent protection from wax moth
 

hemo 

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Dipel comes under various other names, Dipel is just a brand name.
Xentari raupenfrei is another it use sub species Aizawi of Baccillus thuriniensis.
 

hemo 

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It will be prudent to use the product as it is designed for as a preventative treatment for stored combs rather then a topical in case treatment.
As has been said a colony will deal with WM larvae in the colony 99.9% of the time
 

sean-a 

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As has been said a colony will deal with WM larvae in the colony 99.9% of the time
True, a strong colony will deal with the WM larvae when it is on the hive, not so effective at dealing with them when the super or BB is in my garage!
 

hemo 

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But you are talking of when you make up frames, with no drawn wax or brood having been previously laid up new frames aren't an issue. Only time one needs to be concerned is storage of drawn combs.
 

victor meldrew 

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I make sure I store supers and brood boxes in different locations .
supers are seldom attacked by SWM thankfully the large WM isn’t seen in these parts !
 

sean-a 

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But you are talking of when you make up frames, with no drawn wax or brood having been previously laid up new frames aren't an issue. Only time one needs to be concerned is storage of drawn combs.
Yes, I was thinking spraying the frames when I make them with Dipel, anticipating that they will be drawn at some point, likely the same season that I make them, but possibly the next one.
Once drawn the bees may put pollen, nectar or brood into them and possibly these would be attacked by WM over the winter in my garage, as each year goes by, there is an increased chance that there may have been brood in the frame.

My question was really "if I spray the frames when I make them up, will this give long lasting protection to the frames because the spores last a long time"
Wax Moth tends to lay eggs on the frame rather than in the wax, so spraying the frame should theoretically bring larvae and spores into contact.
 

hemo 

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The treatment will degrade over time by the time wax is drawn it will be next to useless.
 

jeff33 

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I have been treating my frames with sulphur for the past few winter and thought it was to protect against wax moth. Is this correct or I got it wrong?
I would also be interested in finding out how beeks manage to do acetic acid sublimation? Temperature needs to reach a constant 25-30C for a few days inside the boxes, but unless you do it a the height of the summer when we have our 3 days heat wave it rarely reach the required temp.
 

hemo 

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I don't sublimate acetic but use it in liquid form in a stack.

Sulphur is ok but like most treatments needs careful use especially in the a garden setting, a bacillus treatment is safer for all to use.
 

jeff33 

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I don't sublimate acetic but use it in liquid form in a stack
Yes that's the way of doing it but unless the temperature is high enough for it to evaporate/sublimate I didn't think it worked..also a real pain for ruining your metal runners!!
 

mdotb 

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Just taken an Acetic Acid stack down, I left it about 2 1/2 weeks given the temperatures, it had completely evaporated within that time.
 
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