designing out varroa

[mandabow]

i've been thinking ( generally a dangerous thing)....

having watched this and thought how annoying for the bees having to lift the dead up and out. and seen pictures the otherday on here of someone queen excluding up their obervation hives exit.... + thinking of the "new improved antiswarming

do bees need to exit and enter in the same place??.. or could you set up the system to encorage bees to set up cycling, while encouraging drones out but not letting them back in (thereby decreasing the likelyhood of any disease comming in on foreign drones, and.. if you have good characteristics in your colony presumably lack of drones in the brood box to them signifies drones are dead so they will produce more, drones have to shack up in other colonies so have a better chance of passing on these positive genetic traits to wild populations.) and possibly lack of drones in the hive may make them think swarming isn't such a cunning plan as it'd be risking the colony if virgin queen can't mate..


i was thinking something like this

with queen excluder on the front top and a one way door at the bottom, for bees to remove any dead and for drones to exit (hopefully not HRH in a swarm, but if she needed to then at least she'd be able)

bees comming back in through the QX would have the option of down to drop pollen into brood or up into super first. if theres a big flow on then i'd imagine they'd all flood out of the bottom and pour in at the top .

if you have to go away and wanted to keep the queen in you could block the exit hole leaving the girls to go thro the QX layer and drones to build up, and closing off the entrance to it and to the super would preserve heat in winter, the QX like a mouse guard and minimise wind into the hive as it'd have to dogleg.

any suggestions/ drawbacks etc greatly appreciated..

 

[FenBee]

I can see a few points I do not like, as follows:

a) First the colony like to have drones about in Spring and Summer, significantly less drones will probably result in a less than happy hive.

b) The one way entrance is probably going to become blocked by drones, when leaving the hive.

c) Pollen loss when bees have to navigate the queen excluder at the top entrance.

I would keep you hive entrance simple and try to breed (or obtain) hygienic bees, that groom each other, this will reduce your varroa problems and you will have a far happier, healthier hive.

 

[mandabow]

I can see a few points I do not like, as follows:

a) First the colony like to have drones about in Spring and Summer, significantly less drones will probably result in a less than happy hive.

b) The one way entrance is probably going to become blocked by drones, when leaving the hive.

c) Pollen loss when bees have to navigate the queen excluder at the top entrance.

I would keep you hive entrance simple and try to breed (or obtain) hygienic bees, that groom each other, this will reduce your varroa problems and you will have a far happier, healthier hive.

a)i'd imagine there would still be a fair few drones, especially immature ones.. it's more to stop them comming back in once theyve visited varooa infested ferral (or unkept) hives, and to stop foreign drones making their way in.

b) again i'd imagine drones leaving the hive for drone congregation points apon attempting to get back in, with the flow of girls out would give up and find free food elewhere in an uprotected hive. why would they stop short of the door, they wouldnt know they couldnt get back in until they came back.

c) yes tho in the swarm control hive presumably the pollen is brought down to the brood nest by the workers fine?!?.. i thought pollen traps were smaller with sharper edges than QX's, hey ho... leads to cunning plan for mark 2

bees don't even need to take the pollen to the brood box, it can be conviniently delivered (along with varoa load) to the level of the brood... hopefully the veroa will crawl out and either fall down and caught up in the movement out of the bottom.

agree on the hygenic bees if indeed they exist, and i'm not gonna build this for sometime, as not melting holes in my beehaus.. just braindumping on screen really incase anyone wanted to try it.

on another random note.. looking at THB's it seems to em an awful lot of the floor surface area is wood albeit at an angle, so varooa drop will mostly be able to climb back up.... can varoa walk on glass, i know bees can. if varroa cant would glas lining the bottom of the TBH help increase the drop lost from the hive.

if they slide of well maybe remove the mesh altogether and take the point of glass down to a 6mm hole with overhang for bee landingboard in summer you could ahve it all open, in mouseguard not needed but hole could be restricted for wasps etcs when colony not doing so well, using mesh so varooa would still pass thro a bit.

prety sure if they couldnt walk on glass this'd have bene done before tho

 

[Ellem]

A lot of TBHs have open or mesh floors for the varroa to drop out (hopefully!)

 

[Russel]

I would think glass will get dirty quiet quickly with all the debris falling down within the hive enabling most critters to climb up.

 

[mandabow]

A lot of TBHs have open or mesh floors for the varroa to drop out (hopefully!)

indeed, but the only covers a proportion of the actual footprint due to the sloped edges of wood to stop the bees attaching.. in my mind anyway this wood is no way near as smooth at glass so any varooa falling on it would be able to get a grip pretty quickly and not carry on rolling towards the mesh.

+ the mesh itself has a proportion that if a mite landed on a bar it would be less likely to fall through.

I would think glass will get dirty quiet quickly with all the debris falling down within the hive enabling most critters to climb up.

? they keep the wood pretty clean, and debis can build up on it far more easily. i'd hope they would keep the glass clean to, they can afterall walk on it with ease.

friction of glass at same angle as even highly sanded wood is much much less

imagine glass lining a childrens slide, or wood lining it.. the kids would go a lot faster on the glass i assure you, and would probably be stuck at the top on the wooden slide.

i can't see how a mite falling on a wooden surface even if sanded relatively smooth is not going to stop before it gets to the open mesh. wherase if it were on glass kept clean by the bees i'd expect it to roll down then only stay in hive if it manages to get lucky and land on a crossbar of the mesh..

i dunooo

 

[beestingjohn]

Can the varroa mesh be sprayed with silicone spray to make it more slippery or is it too toxic?

 

[viridens]

Two points.

Glass appears smooth and slippery to us, but the surface is rough enough to give footholds to insects who happily climb up it even when it is vertical.

If a mesh floor is 20% plastic or metal and 80% holes, then there is an 80% chance that any falling mite will find itself outside the hive,and no chemicals involved!

Does anyone know how often mites lose their grip or their footing?

 

[MuswellMetro]

the happykeeper tube floor relies on a slippery surface rather than the 80% hole

http://www.apiservices.com/happykeeper/index_us.htm

 

[viridens]

I like the concept of the tube floor, but I have yet to compare one with mesh (which is still new to me!).
I can see how the inclined surfaces, rather than horizontal mesh, guide mites and debris to the slots where it falls out. I also wonder if the stronger air stream due to the much smaller surface area of these narrow slots compared to a mesh floor may act to help mites lose their footing.