Dead bees

[patl]

OK, this was a bit weird. On opening up a hive which we haven't inspected in 3 weeks (and that time we saw no queen, but did see some sealed brood) the rapid feeder (the rectangular white plastic kind) was full of dead bees, probably around a couple of hundred or so. The feeder was completely dry so they didn't drown. There were also quite a lot of bees dragging them out as we lifted the lid on the feeder.
On opening up the hive. There was nothing but stores in the frames, so it looks like the queen (who has never been particularly prolific) had finally given up the ghost sometime in the last month or so.
When we last inspected this hive, we did destroy a couple of queen cells so I guess that in trying to reduce the chances of swarming, we destroyed the hives attempt a replacing their failing queen.
I'm really puzzled by the dead bees though, there seemed to be quite a lot of quite small bees in there too if that means anything. As the rest of the hive seemed to have a fairly normal temperament, it didn't feel like it was disease related and the syrup they had last week was from a container which was shared between them and another colony, so I assume it wasn't poisoning as the other colony is fine. It almost felt like they were using the feeder as a kind of mortuary, with it having been so wet, storing them away from the colony until they could take them out in better weather. Any ideas gratefully received.

 

[Outlander]

Now I know I'm very new to beekeeping and someone I hope can put me right but I am a little puzzled myself. Why no inspection for 3 weeks after finding QC which you destroyed to try and reduce the chance of swarming. It doesn’t make sense to me, some explain please.

 

[flemage]

Hi

I had issues with the same type of plastic feeder which is called the english feeder from tho*nes.

The feeder needs to cover any holes on the feeder/crown board and sits flush. This means that no bees have any access to the roof space. If they do then unfortunaly the plastic cover of the feeder does not always sit flush in the feeder tray and the bees get into the feeder then drown.

The fact that there was no syrup when you checked does not mean that it wasent full a while back as the bees have just used the feed and left to poor unfortunate ones in there.

I did complain to tho*nes but they stated thats there shouldnt be any bees above crown/feeder board. But as no instructions came with it i wouldnt have known this.

perhaps this helps a little?

 

[REDWOOD]

Some feeders do have problems with bees drowning
You need a new mated queen as you have left your hive Q-
feeders left for more than a week can develop mold and cause nosema
Inspections should be done every 7 days if queen is not clipped and every 10 days if she is clipped
Inspect hives with an intent purpose
A good little book free from the WBKA worth a read a couple of times at least
good luck

 

[Andy Duff]

A bee-keeping course might be a good idea.

 

[patl]

Now I know I'm very new to beekeeping and someone I hope can put me right but I am a little puzzled myself. Why no inspection for 3 weeks after finding QC which you destroyed to try and reduce the chance of swarming. It doesn’t make sense to me, some explain please.

No, you're right and I'd agree entirely. Unfortunately a combination of work during the week and torrential rain at the weekends have been the cause otherwise we do normally inspect every 7-10 days or so. Actually, rechecking my notes, we broke down the queen cells during the previous week's inspection, so 4 weeks ago. There were no queen cells 3 weeks ago.

The feeder needs to cover any holes on the feeder/crown board and sits flush. This means that no bees have any access to the roof space. If they do then unfortunaly the plastic cover of the feeder does not always sit flush in the feeder tray and the bees get into the feeder then drown.

I dont think this is it as the lids were certainly fully shut when I opened them and I'm pretty sure that when I opened the lid , the crown board hole was at the edge of the slot in the feeder. But even if it wasn't there would have been no way for them to get back into the feeder if the lid wasn't relatively propped open.

A bee-keeping course might be a good idea.

Strangely our beekeeping course didn't have any lessons covering what to do when you find a bunch of dead bees in your feeder.

 

[flemage]

Hi Patl

The feeders I had, I would have put money on them not getting through the top cover lid as it was seated correctly but even though the top lid looks like it should do the job of keeping them out Tho*nes make no claims about this at all and state no bees should be in between the roof and crown/feeder boards. I ended up putting rocks on top of the lid to try and get it to 'seat'.

A way you could check this is see if there were any puddles of syrup left in the corners as the English feeders have a central hole and almost all hives lean one way or another you would find small puddles of syrup left in a corner.

If the bees had found a way to gain access to the feeder it would likely be completely dry.

Any way you really need to sort the queen issue out now as a priority. Don’t worry to much about the loss of bee you still have time for them to make up numbers.

Very best of luck

 

[Black Comb]

When you rear queens/deal with queen cells, you have to inspect, torrential rain or not.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My best buy this year has been a fishing umbrella from Argos

 

[patl]

Any way you really need to sort the queen issue out now as a priority. Don’t worry to much about the loss of bee you still have time for them to make up numbers.
Very best of luck

Thanks, yes, that is our top priority at the moment. I'm actually reasonably happy with the queen dieing off, as she came with a nuc last year and the colony never really built up well so I'm not sure she was ever up to much. This has just forced our hand on when to re-queen/unite with a stronger colony.

When you rear queens/deal with queen cells, you have to inspect, torrential rain or not.

Fair enough, I guess with the amount of rain/cold we've had I've been more worried about the colony getting cold/wet than swarming, particularly as the last inspection prior to this one found no queen cells. In understand the attraction of european bee houses now.

 

[Meg]

Hi Patl,

Bees with nosema often drown in feeders. There was obviously access into the feeder somehow otherwise the dead ones would not be there. I wouldn't worry about that just now, but I would test the adult bees for nosema.

You mention that this colony was from a nuc bought in last year that didn't build up very well - another reason for thinking nosema.

Requeening is a good start but I would also consider changing out old comb and treating the bees or atleast giving them a food supplement of the kind often seen in ads in the bee magazines.

Meg