Cut-out, Trap-out, Trap-in or worse...

[roche]

Problem:
A Colony of bees has inhabited an area either behind wall tiles or under a felted flat roof. (first floor roof – about 15 to 20 feet up) Entrance is between soffit and wall cladding tiles. Tiles are terracotta. Top row is attached above soffit. Entrance is about 300mm long, about 3 tiles wide. Colony has only recently arrived (last few days), although the space has been intermittently occupied for the last ten years or so. Access from either ceiling space or internal walls is not possible.
The bees are somewhat aggressive and grandchildren are coming to stay in the nearish future. The owners have been stung.

Options:
Cut-out
Due to the fastening of the top row of tiles being above the soffit, removal of the tiles would not be possible without removal of the soffit. The soffit could not be removed without significant damage. This seems to preclude a cut-out.

Trap-out
A bait hive could be positioned on the flat roof above the entrance. The entrance could potentially be reduced using duct tape and lath to a size where a porter escape could be fitted. Given the age of the building, the bees may discover other entries/exits. The time scale of a trap-out may preclude this unless the bees can be encouraged to move faster, possibly smoke? I do not have spare frames of brood close enough to add to the bait hive.

Trap-in
A trap-in has the advantage of being able to locate and block alternative entrances/exits. It may be possible to use CO2 to flood the compartment to bring about the quick demise of the colony, without poison.

Either a trap-in or a trap-out has the disadvantage of potentially leaving comb and honey in situ, which may cause problems in the future.

Final option is commercial pest control with un-known methods, probably poison, followed by builder with caulking gun…I suspect that not all entrances would be found and either robbing or later re-inhabitation would occur.

Does anyone have any views on how to proceed? I have a day or so to come to a conclusion.

Thanks in advance,

Roche

 

[tonybloke]

one for the pest controller, I reckon.

 

[BDCS]

The pest controller must only kill the target animal which means he/she must ensure all entries are sealed to prevent robbing. The fines for failing to do this are very high. Powder is blown into the entry - usually fican d. This is why I have taken up beekeeping as I would'nt kill bees but some pc's see it as just another easy meal ticket

 

[tonybloke]

The pest controller must only kill the target animal which means he/she must ensure all entries are sealed to prevent robbing. The fines for failing to do this are very high. Powder is blown into the entry - usually fican d. This is why I have taken up beekeeping as I would'nt kill bees but some pc's see it as just another easy meal ticket

if the householder wants to spend several hundred pounds getting in scaffolding, a beekeeper (who is also a builder)and possibly a roofer, and all the cost of replacing tiles / soffits etc, fine.
but from reading the OP it didn't seem that way?

so my advice stands

 

[meetballuk]

question and response:
i have similar issue can they not be smoked out?

hive near by loads of smoke?

 

[Chris Luck]

For me, (and I gave loads of these calls), I first ascertain where they are located and if at a safe height I encourage the owner to leave them there after explaining a little about honey bees. A safe height is over 3.5 metres to my mind. If they are not willing to live with them and a cut out isn't possible I tell them they will need a pest controller or a bee keeper with different moral standards to mine.

Smoking or using perfume can move them if used within 48 hours of their arrival and in some cases a little longer. I came across the perfume method entirely by accident but it works better than smoke, they really don't like it.

Chris

 

[cjhart2]

I came across the perfume method entirely by accident but it works better than smoke, they really don't like it.

Chris

O!D SP*CE always made the girls run away or was it just me they ran away from .

 

[Chris Luck]

Must have been the Old spice, can't have been you.

Chris

 

[roche]

And the answer is - A cut out! The householders have decided the bees are too precious to waste, that not cleaning out the space properly could endanger other bees, and lead to mice and suchlike, and it is a good opportunity to insulate that bit of roof...

 

[Chris Luck]

Bon chance.

Chris

 

[ratcatcher]

The pest controller must only kill the target animal which means he/she must ensure all entries are sealed to prevent robbing. The fines for failing to do this are very high. Powder is blown into the entry - usually fican d. This is why I have taken up beekeeping as I would'nt kill bees but some pc's see it as just another easy meal ticket

again, tarring all pesties with the same brush, all the pesties that I know will not touch bee's, but hand over phone numbers of local beeks, and a reason I too became a beekeeper, as I cover the whole of london undergrounds pest control, I was unable to call in outside beeks, as they don't hold the neccessary certification to get access to all areas, as bee's are not on the pest list, they will never be the target species,
but "blowing in" ficam d is not taken lightly, full survey's need to be carried out first to identify any water courses, fish ponds/rivers etc, as if they are present, then that pesticide would be a no,no

wasp jobs, 1/2hr £45
bee removal, 2hrs plus, free of charge
see all pesties aint out to make a fast buck

 

[roche]

Well, I think it's all done...

After I had surveyed the bees and their location, I printed this document, which I think gives a pretty fair summary of the pros and cons of dealing with a colony resident in a house:

If the bees have stored much honey in the cavity and you kill the colony with a pesticide, the honey will be contaminated with the pesticide. Foraging bees from another nearby managed or feral bee colony will be attracted to the honey in the cavity and may cause other unnecessary colony demise.
To avoid this problem, caulk all potential entrances to the cavity. This will prevent another swarm from entering the same cavity the next swarm season.
A foul odour is to be expected for several weeks in the vicinity of the decaying bees if removal is not conducted.
Once the bees have set up housekeeping for more than a few days, the job often becomes more difficult. Sometimes, much comb (beeswax), brood and honey are stored in a cavity of a structure. Simply injecting a pesticide in the wall to kill the bees is risky.
The comb will attract wax moths and mice. The honey will attract ants and other insects and may ooze through the wall or ceiling if comb melts during hot weather. (When the bees were present, they would have regulated the temperature in the cavity by air movement)
To prevent future infestations involves the complete physical removal of all bees (dead or alive), comb and honey from the wall following extermination. The removal process should be scheduled when no humans or pets are in the immediate area. A good wash down of the cavity with soapy water is recommended to remove all odours of the previous colony. If possible, it is a good idea to leave the void area open for a couple of weeks to allow drying and dissipation of colony odours. Filling the void with spray foam insulation or fiberglass batting prior to wall closure will prevent re-colonization of the space.
Depending on the exterior wall construction, the neutralization process may have to be conducted inside the structure, although exterior wall removal is preferred in most cases. The dimensions of the wall space occupied by the bee colony can normally be investigated in late evening by careful heat and noise observations. A stethoscope is a handy device to have when inspecting the size of the colony. An outline of the colony can be identified by carefully listening for a drastic decrease in the buzzing sound created by the bees. A light tap on the wall surface with a screwdriver or hammer will elevate the noise intensity.


As I said earlier, the householders decided to go ahead with a cutout...

I profiled the temperature of the ceiling of the room under the flat roof and was able to get a pretty good idea of the location of the colony - the ceiling temperature was sitting at about 33 degrees in the area I suspected they were in, and dropped rapidly to about 25 as I moved away.

Before I was able to to anything else, a reasonable sized swarm issued from the entrance the bees were using, and eventually clustered in a tree at about shoulder height - I collected them into a poly nuc and fired them to an out apiary. I drilled a hole in the soffit, and put a small video camera and light in - I was able to confirm the entrance and location a bit more.

The weather closed in for a few days - not ideal for scaffolding and taking the flat roof off. So we waited for the next gap in the weather. Apparently the bees did too. The next fine moment they swarmed again...About the same size. This time they settled about waist high in a shrub. I popped them into a poly nuc, and put the scaffolding up...

That evening, I attacked the roof. We cut the wax out and mounted it into a national brood box, just by the edge of the cut out roof. When we finished that evening, the bees were walking into the national.

The following evening, I shut the bees in, and lowered the hive to the ground. Delivered them to the out apiary. Followed up the next morning with scrubbing out the space where they had been with washing soda, and making good the woodwork.

Roofers are due in a day or two to re-roof the entire area...

The three recovered colonies: the first now has sealed worker brood. The second has brood not yet sealed, and the third is drawing comb...

There are a few things that amazed me: the bees did almost what I expected and told the householders, and how incredibly tolerant the householders are...

 

[Chris Luck]

Excellent, a good job well done.

Chris

 

[roche]

Thanks Chris

 

[tonybloke]

Excellent, a good job well done.

Chris

 

[dpearce4]

damn that was impressive. well done.

 

[VEG]

A job well done and a very good clean up.

 

[cjhart2]

Fantastic pics .I'm impressed .

 

[Polyanwood]

Thanks for posting. Really interesting to see how they build a natural nest.

 

[village girl]

lookes like a realy good job well done, the householders were lucky to have found you