Cross combing in nuc

[Beemum]

My fault, I left too much space through not having enough frames…but the new colony has settled beautifully and made beautiful comb much more quickly than I expected…

Bearing in mind that the colony is destined for a top bar in the spring, (winters here are cold/wet so with a small swarm I thought the nuc would be more protective until the population is more established?), should I try and sort this out now whilst the comb is new and soft or shall I wait until Spring when I was going to have to crop and chop or at the very least shook swarm anyway?

Priority is to get the colony through the winter - I don’t care which box they’re in or how neat it looks…and as they’ve made a good start I’m tempted to leave them be rather than disturb them this late in the year. Or would that be unwise?

Thank you !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

sort them out ASAP or there will be an even bigger mess there in the spring.
It may be an idea to tell us exactly what you have at the moment.

 

[pargyle]

My fault, I left too much space through not having enough frames…but the new colony has settled beautifully and made beautiful comb much more quickly than I expected…

Bearing in mind that the colony is destined for a top bar in the spring, (winters here are cold/wet so with a small swarm I thought the nuc would be more protective until the population is more established?), should I try and sort this out now whilst the comb is new and soft or shall I wait until Spring when I was going to have to crop and chop or at the very least shook swarm anyway?

Priority is to get the colony through the winter - I don’t care which box they’re in or how neat it looks…and as they’ve made a good start I’m tempted to leave them be rather than disturb them this late in the year. Or would that be unwise?

Thank you !

Well ...if they are going into a top bar hive and you have them currently in a framed Nuc without enough frames I don't see any real point in messing with them ... if they are going into a top bar in spring then you are going to have to tip them in and tear the frames/combs apart to attach them to the top bars of your top bar hive. Not a fun job at the best of times.

In hindsight (and I recognise that it's too late now .. I would have just put some top bars in between the frame of the Nuc as they would then have built out comb from the top bars and you woud have had something more usable for your top bar. It's not too late to do this as they will build comb out well into the autumn ... more so if you can feed them so the alternative to leaving them alone is to make some top bars out of plain timber and if you can attach the free comb to the underside of these top bars. Holes drilled through the top bars and some bamboo kebab skewers works quite well - you glue the skewers into the holes in the top bar and then just skewer the free comb onto them keeping it as straight as you can.

Personally ... sell the top bar hive and buy a framed hive in the sales is what I would do !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Personally ... sell the top bar hive and buy a framed hive in the sales is what I would do !

 

[drex]

Personally I would recommend any beginner to get a few years of experience of framed hives before going for top bars. I run both.

 

[Sutty]

If you're talking about brace comb between combs built properly in the moveable frames I would sort them now.
Use a long knife to cut through the brace comb before removing the frame, then remove it, shake the bees off and scrape/cut away the brace comb before replacing. It the comb is a bit wonky it can be trimmed back so there is a bee space between frames, at least for stores & empty combs.

 

[rolande]

The important issue for me would be how are you going to manage them for the rest of the season? However, it's admittedly much easier to sort out dry comb in the spring, when the colony also happens to be smaller, than to do the same job in summer with fresh comb full of runny nectar.

 

[ericbeaumont]

the colony is destined for a top bar in the spring

Curious to know why you went down this road (though it's just as good as any).

 

[Beemum]

The important issue for me would be how are you going to manage them for the rest of the season? However, it's admittedly much easier to sort out dry comb in the spring, when the colony also happens to be smaller, than to do the same job in summer with fresh comb full of runny nectar.

That’s my dilemma really - my priority is to get them through the winter, it’s a small colony and where I live winters can be brutal…or just long.

I’m tempted to leave them to do what they feel they need to do and sort it out in the spring, rather than destroy the comb now and force them to start again…which at this point in the season feels counterproductive and cruel, although obviously the longer I leave them the more chaos I’ll have to sort out…

 

[Beemum]

Curious to know why you went down this road (though it's just as good as any).

Top bar appeals for many reasons - having done a lot of research and been an observer in a group apiary on and off over the years, the different style of intervention feels like it might suit the bees, and me, better; I don’t need or want a precise timing for honey harvest, taking a small amount now and then will work well for my family; I’m not very strong/it’ll be easier on my back.

So it’s a combination of things…and for the foreseeable I’ll also - unexpectedly due to circumstances- be running a National poly hive, so I’ll hopefully be able to compare which works best for the bees, and me, in our part of the country.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I like your reasoning.

 

[Sutty]

I'd be concerned that by spring it will be a completely welded together mass that becomes impossible to separate in a useful way & the comb could be a total loss. There should still be enough time for them to draw out more frames even if you move them into a full sized hive this year, though you may need to feed to achieve that.

 

[Beemum]

Well ...if they are going into a top bar hive and you have them currently in a framed Nuc without enough frames I don't see any real point in messing with them ... if they are going into a top bar in spring then you are going to have to tip them in and tear the frames/combs apart to attach them to the top bars of your top bar hive. Not a fun job at the best of times.

In hindsight (and I recognise that it's too late now .. I would have just put some top bars in between the frame of the Nuc as they would then have built out comb from the top bars and you woud have had something more usable for your top bar. It's not too late to do this as they will build comb out well into the autumn ... more so if you can feed them so the alternative to leaving them alone is to make some top bars out of plain timber and if you can attach the free comb to the underside of these top bars. Holes drilled through the top bars and some bamboo kebab skewers works quite well - you glue the skewers into the holes in the top bar and then just skewer the free comb onto them keeping it as straight as you can.

Personally ... sell the top bar hive and buy a framed hive in the sales is what I would do !

I know it’s all far from ideal, but life outside bees is challenging atm so I wasn’t thinking straight! I will see if I can cut some top bars down so they’ll fit in the nuc - width is perfect they’re just slightly too deep to be able to shut the lid…

 

[Beemum]

I like your reasoning.

Thank you Eric, that’s reassuring - I’m coming to understand that beekeeping is as much art as science, so following my intuition, with opinions and help from everyone on here and in my local Assoc, seems the way to go. I will no doubt make lots more mistakes than I have already, but hopefully the bees will be forgiving

 

[Beemum]

I'd be concerned that by spring it will be a completely welded together mass that becomes impossible to separate in a useful way & the comb could be a total loss. There should still be enough time for them to draw out more frames even if you move them into a full sized hive this year, though you may need to feed to achieve that.

Thank you Sutty that’s my concern too I’m just worried that we’re too close to the end of the season (I’m way up north) for me to mess them about…but possibly a smaller amount of chaos now would be better, I just don’t know enough to know!

 

[rolande]

These are photos of a super occupied by a swarm and left over winter till the spring. Wild comb was running across many of the frames. You'll note that the box had been turned upside down and then pulled off, much easier than trying to pull wild comb clogged frames from the top.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Top bar appeals for many reasons - having done a lot of research and been an observer in a group apiary on and off over the years, the different style of intervention feels like it might suit the bees, and me, better; I don’t need or want a precise timing for honey harvest, taking a small amount now and then will work well for my family; I’m not very strong/it’ll be easier on my back.

So it’s a combination of things…and for the foreseeable I’ll also - unexpectedly due to circumstances- be running a National poly hive, so I’ll hopefully be able to compare which works best for the bees, and me, in our part of the country.

You need a Flow hive

 

[drex]

I know that if I get cross comb in my top bar hives it is better sorted sooner rather than later. That way the amount of comb wasted is kept to a minimum

 

[Beemum]

I think that may be the way to go rolande - assuming you’ve posted it as an example of how to deal with it rather than a dire warning! And I’m grateful to see it’s not just me that’s got into this situation The swarm has been very busy making itself at home in the nuc - including making comb in the miller feeder which I have now taken off…

I just can’t see the new comb they have now surviving even my most careful attempt to extricate it - and them - it’s just too soft, especially in this heat, and I’m worried that I’ll end up with a mash of bees and wax and nectar and no possible chance of constructing it into anything useful for the bees or me…

Clearly delaying until the spring will present other challenges as others have pointed out - hence I keep going back and forth between the two options.

I definitely can’t do anything until the weather breaks, so I’m thinking I’ll investigate next week and see how much destruction I would wreak doing it now, and then make a final decision.

 

[Beemum]

I know that if I get cross comb in my top bar hives it is better sorted sooner rather than later. That way the amount of comb wasted is kept to a minimum

Thanks Drex but see my comment below, am I not going to just trash everything trying to fix it while the comb is so soft?