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kazmcc 

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I have just checked my emails and found one from the guy who is to look after the bees with me for the school. He informs me that he started creosoting the hive this week, but ran out half way through. He didn't check with any of us about this beforehand, and I am concerned whether you can use this stuff on a bee hive.

Frankly, I am livid.

Please tell me he hasn't poisoned them :cuss:
 

jezd 

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Hi must be wrong, creosoting is not a legal compound for treating timber any more (I think) - its banned isnt it. In a general sense you have to check the compounds you use to treat the hives external wood.

He cant be using creosote.

If your hive is made from cedar then just leave it as it is.

If he has really used creosote then god help the bees, it will smell for years! not sure of short/long term damage but it wont be a benefit thats for sure.

JD
 
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kazmcc 

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It's not made of cedar, it's a temp one made of ply. It is quite possible that he has had a tin lying around for years so if he says that's what he used, then I reckon he has. I really need to know he hasn't poisoned these bees. I have sent everyone emails, but it's late and I doubt I will get a reply.

This is typical. I doubt I will sleep much tonight after this. I am furious. :(
 

Hivemaker. 

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Creosote is only banned for amatuar use. I have some old box's 40 years or more old that were done with crosote,good as new,but they still smell strong in warm weather.
 

kazmcc 

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Will they be ok? He has done it with the colony in there. Like they don't have enough going on with the Apilife.
 

jezd 

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its one of those 'oh boy' moments, I would transfer asap if he has - buy or borrow another box and remove the concern
 

kazmcc 

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You have no idea how angry I am. Not one of us who manage the project were asked about this. Again, I have been put in a difficult position. :cuss:
 
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From what I have read Karen it isn't good. I would contact your mentor and ask if he has a spare hive you can use asap...I imagine he wont be too pleased either, It will be some time before the bees can go back in if it was creosote...I think your assistant may have outlived his usefulness. Only sorry I'm not close enough to lend my spare hive...

I'll be thinking of you, and if I feel the earth move I'll know it is the aftershock from manchester!
 

eric 

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is Directive is the latest measure brought in by the European Union for creosote/coal tar creosote. In 1994, controls on the specification of creosote that could be sold to the general public were implemented due to concerns over the carcinogenic potential of certain constituents of creosote. New information has led the EU to believe that creosote/coal tar creosote may have a greater potential to cause cancer than previously thought and as a precautionary measure the EU has decided to take action to prohibit the use of creosote/coal tar creosote wood preservatives by the general public. To bring this about, the BERR instructed the HSE to remove the Control of Pesticides Regulations approvals for these products to the following timetable:

Approval for advertisement and sale of amateur creosote/coal tar creosote products by the product Approval Holder and their agents expired on 28 February 2003.

Approval for advertisement and sale of amateur creosote/coal tar creosote products by anyone other then the product Approval Holder or their agents expired on 30 April 2003.

Approval for supply, storage and use of amateur creosote/coal tar creosote products expired on 30 June 2003.

Approval for the advertisement, sale, supply and storage of amateur creosote/coal tar creosote products for the purposes of disposal only expired on 30 June 2004.

This means that, as of 30 April 2003, retailers are no longer able to sell creosote to the general public, and as of 30 June 2003, the general public are no longer able to use wood preservatives that contain creosote/coal tar creosote. Where retailers still have stocks of amateur use creosote products after 30 April, they should contact their supplier in the first instance, or their local waste regulatory authority. If members of the public have creosote after the 30 June 2003 they should contact their local council for advice on disposal. A list of affected products is given at Annex I.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/biocides/copr/creosote.htm
I would buy or borrow a hive and transfer that stuff sinks bees might bugger off, but saying that he might have only painted the back of the hive, no good worring now see what he has done tomorrow Kaz
 
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kazmcc 

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From what I have read Karen it isn't good. I would contact your mentor and ask if he has a spare hive you can use asap...I imagine he wont be too pleased either, It will be some time before the bees can go back in if it was creosote...I think your assistant may have outlived his usefulness. Only sorry I'm not close enough to lend my spare hive...

I'll be thinking of you, and if I feel the earth move I'll know it is the aftershock from manchester!
Oh, believe me.....the whole of Britain will feel this. We don't have the money to buy a spare, but I am sure our mentor will supply us one. I don't know when it was done. I have been unwell this week and haven't been down for my usual checks. I just hope they are ok and haven't decided to find an new, less pungent home....on top of the Apilife too. I will let you know how this goes down. I'm never going to get to sleep now.
 

Hivemaker. 

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Thank you, thats the link.......and only for professional use.

As stated at bottom of paper......

Approvals for professional and industrial creosote/coal tar creosote products have been allowed to continue, subject to restrictions on the specification of the products.
 

beebreeder 

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A long retired commercial beekeeper locally used to treat all his boxes with creosote, and their honey was sold at Harrods amongst other places and his bees flourished, when he sold the business he was running close to 260 colonies, unfortunately he is no longer with us.
 

kazmcc 

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Relatively non-toxic chemicals, which can be used around bees with a minimum of injury, include the wood preservatives: acid copper chromate, copper naphthenate and copper 8 quinolate. Experiments show that hive treated with creosote, pentachlorophenol ( PCP ), tributyl tin oxide (TBTO) and chromated copper arsenate (CCA) were associated with adverse effect on bees and left residues of preservative chemicals in bees, wax and honey. All were also associated with poor winter survival of colonies. In particular, PCP Tranlocated from treated hive to honey, bees and wax. Greatest concentration of PCP was in bee wax. Bee wax has a number of uses like cosmetics for which is essential.
 

MuswellMetro 

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how old was the creosote, if it was a really old can, it lethal, even the modern stuff is bad but the old tar oil aaaaaah

ban him from the bees, i am sure on here we can beg borrow or steel you a hive

are they in standards or 14x12s
 

admin 

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Regards acid copper chromate,I use roof battens as supports for wire mesh floors as it is cheap to buy(around 20p/foot)and just needs cutting in half to be the right size.
For anyone confused it is the timber inside the floor that the mesh staples onto if you are not using a rebate to sit the mesh in.

They come already dipped in ACC(green coloured) and as like you say it is harmless to bees.
 

hedgerow pete 

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can i just ask if it was proper creosote or was it the new version that you can buy, if it was the stuff within a small plastic can type container i would not be worried as it is only the new stuff and should soon vent off and the bees will carry on.

please try and seperate the name creosote with the old mixtures and the newer versions as they are completly differant in there make up, the old stuff will kill you but the telegraph pole boiled in it will out live you,

the newer stuff will kill you but you would has to repaint the fence several times before you pop off
 

Skyhook 

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can i just ask if it was proper creosote or was it the new version that you can but, if it was the stuff within a small plastic can type container i would not be worried as it is only the new stuff and should soon vent off and the bees will carry on.
:iagree:

It matters a lot if it was an old tin, or the stuff they sell now with the active ingredients taken out. If it's the former it's as urgent as people are saying, if its the new stuff not great but probably OK.

Good luck!
 

drstitson 

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eu ban

presumably the EU were lobbied hard by the various creosote using industries with vested interests!

"Yes it is dangerous an joe public shouldn't use or be exposed to it BUT your livelihoods depend upon it so you can keep using it on fences you install for joe public and as JP can't buy creosote he'll have to keep coming back to you for retreatment every 5-10 years - how does that sound?"
 

Juststarting 

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Kazmcc,

Sorry to hear of your plight and sleepless night. If you need a spare hive let me know I might be able to get over today def tomorrow if you need it - would willingly help you transfer if you need to.
 

mignon 

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Hi Kazmcc

Oh my goodness (to say the least) I'm about an hour away but if you need some spare kit I'd be quite happy to pop some up today or tomorrow. I'll pm you my number. I've become very fond of your bees over the past few months reading your threads. Just hope all is well, but in future keep that ***** away from your bees.
 

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