creatting wild bee hive

[radged]

hello

i have an allotment plot and like bees. i am also a vegan gardener meaning i don't use animal products or approve of farming animals. i would however like to start a wild bee hive on my plot and leave it to look after itself. are there any problems with this?

 

[user 6228]

yes the problem is getting a structure that doesnt lose heat. classical "natural beekeeping" puts bees in very poor structures compared to their wild habitat. A lot of these are modelled on tropical practice,and not for northern european bees which have evolved for this climate.

The nearest in thermal performance to a tree nest is this

 

[waverider]

Problems for the bee's survival, yes. Go read up.

 

[Easy Beesy]

Much better to make sure you plant bee friendly seeds and grow organically as much as possible. Remember to not use any sort of pesticides. That will encourage them and all other pollinators.

 

[eleanor20]

Much as I am in favour of keeping animals and plants in the conditions that nature intended, you will not be popular with your allotment neighbours if you are harbouring a colony of bees that swarm two or three times every year, and possibly become very hostile through losing a queen. You will also not be popular with other local beekeepers if your colony spreads disease. If you are going to 'keep' bees in any form you will need to intervene every now and then.

 

[user 6228]

and you will need to place the nest about 15 ft up to minimise chances of bees being molested by people and vice versa

 

[enrico]

20 years ago you could have done this, today diseases etc make the chance of long term survival slim. You could supply an old hive and just see what happens but modern bees do need management to some extent. Otherwise let nature take its course. If bees are meant to be there they will arrive and find their own home. Bee friendly crops are so much more the way to go!
E

 

[Hivemaker.]

hello

i would however like to start a wild bee hive on my plot and leave it to look after itself.

Hello
you may like to consider just placing some bumble bee and solitary bee nester boxes on your plot.

 

[For want of a better word]

hello

i have an allotment plot and like bees. i am also a vegan gardener meaning i don't use animal products or approve of farming animals. i would however like to start a wild bee hive on my plot and leave it to look after itself. are there any problems with this?

YES BIG PROBLEMS​

why not get some bumblebees... UK variety, produced in Belgium and imported... although perhaps not as they could bring bee virus diseases into the UK and BBKA do not advise {its members} to import bees.

​

 

[radged]

so problems are:

1) disease wiping out hive and spreading to other hives
2) raising nest 15' to prevent human interference
3) hostile swarms
4) need for correct thermal structure

my plan was to dig a hole in an embankment and plant a nest structure in it then rebury it. i had some bumblebees last year which did this. why is this not practical?

what do bee keepers do to prevent disease?

don't bee keepers end up with hostile swarms due to hives losing the queen?

 

[BeeJayBee]

my plan was to dig a hole in an embankment and plant a nest structure in it then rebury it. i had some bumblebees last year which did this. why is this not practical?

That would be practical, so would having a log pile to encourage a wider range of insects.

Honey bees don't have the same lifestyle as either bumble bees or solitary bees, so you need to decide which you want to encourage. From what you've said I think you're hoping to provide nesting sites for bumble bees.

 

[greengumbo]

Are you talking bumble bees or honeybees ?

Bumble bees - no problem at all.
Honeybees - I suggest you go and read up a bit Its a nice idea to have a hive and let it get on with it but in reality what you suggest may just cause problems for your neighbours and realistically the bees will need some management to keep them going and relatively disease free. Its not as easy as you suggest.

 

[alldigging]

hello

i have an allotment plot and like bees. i am also a vegan gardener meaning i don't use animal products or approve of farming animals. i would however like to start a wild bee hive on my plot and leave it to look after itself. are there any problems with this?

What does your allotment management say about "wild bee hives" on your plot?

 

[For want of a better word]

so problems are:

1) disease wiping out hive and spreading to other hives
2) raising nest 15' to prevent human interference
3) hostile swarms
4) need for correct thermal structure

my plan was to dig a hole in an embankment and plant a nest structure in it then rebury it. i had some bumblebees last year which did this. why is this not practical?

what do bee keepers do to prevent disease?

don't bee keepers end up with hostile swarms due to hives losing the queen?

Feral colonies may be a source of disease.. EFB and AFB could be spread from it making you Beekeepers Enemy No 1... if the feral colony was to be infected.
Wild colonies generally make a nest 15+ feet in a hollow tree
Hostile swarms... hostile bees... particularly if "your" bees are an unfortunate hybrid
Correct thermal structure... possibly way off practicality.. if you intend to keep honey bees buried in an earth bank!

MOST beekeepers have an Integrated Disease Management and Prevention Plan, using a number of techniques of colony management and hive arrangement and manipulation... that would probably go against your vegan ideals

Keep bumblebees... far more within your criteria for pollinators etc

If you want a new queen for your feral nest I know of a nice chap who would sell you an instrumentally inseminated rare breed Buckfast for £300... although that may be against your vegan ideals too?

 

[radged]

i'm not really bothered whether the bees produce honey seeing as i wouldn't want to farm it. more interested in them doing their thing for the plants in the vicinity. don't bumble bees make honey? the allotment already has a couple of bee hives and a resident bee keeper. i wanted to get advice about my proposal before speaking to them.

interesting that you choose to call my imaginary bees feral instead of wild. presumably this is because they would have been kept at some point before they ended up on my plot?

problems are there to be surmounted with intelligent questioning. all you need to do is make sure the goal is good

although that may be against your vegan ideals too?

there are a lot of things against my vegan ideas. artificially inseminating insects would be one of them. taking the insects food stuff is another. replacing it with inferior food stuff is another. killing queens every so often is another. smoking hives is another. i think i've got the moral highground so far so please don't be sniffy about me being a vegan.

 

[alldigging]

i'm not really bothered whether the bees produce honey seeing as i wouldn't want to farm it. more interested in them doing their thing for the plants in the vicinity. don't bumble bees make honey? the allotment already has a couple of bee hives and a resident bee keeper. i wanted to get advice about my proposal before speaking to them.

Plant bee friendly flowers and don't take up room with a hive.

 

[For want of a better word]

i'm not really bothered whether the bees produce honey seeing as i wouldn't want to farm it. more interested in them doing their thing for the plants in the vicinity. don't bumble bees make honey? the allotment already has a couple of bee hives and a resident bee keeper. i wanted to get advice about my proposal before speaking to them.

interesting that you choose to call my imaginary bees feral instead of wild. presumably this is because they would have been kept at some point before they ended up on my plot?

problems are there to be surmounted with intelligent questioning. all you need to do is make sure the goal is good



there are a lot of things against my vegan ideas. artificially inseminating insects would be one of them. taking the insects food stuff is another. replacing it with inferior food stuff is another. killing queens every so often is another. smoking hives is another. i think i've got the moral highground so far so please don't be sniffy about me being a vegan.

There are NO wild bees in the UK ( Personal comm Catherine Thompson)
I think your allotment "resident" beekeepers would probably pour more cold water on your intended method and methodology on keeping bees than this forum has already.
I care little for moral highground... my Gran would say.. you are what you eat!

Salmon

Was in the chippy the other day when a man walked in carrying a salmon under his arm.. he rudely pushed his way to the front of the queue and demanded to know if the fish fryer has any fishcakes.....

" Of course we do" replied the fish fryer with a curious look on his face

"Thank heavens".. said the rude man... "It's his Birthday" !!!

QED

 

[Chris B]

i would however like to start a wild bee hive on my plot

If you start it (i.e. put bees in place) then surely you've taken your first steps towards being a farmer.
I don't share your views, but if I did I would probably set up habitats that might appeal to bees and let them decide whether to take up residence.
Nesting tubes for solitary bees is your best bet.

 

[Russel]

i'm not really bothered whether the bees produce honey seeing as i wouldn't want to farm it. more interested in them doing their thing for the plants in the vicinity. don't bumble bees make honey? the allotment already has a couple of bee hives and a resident bee keeper. i wanted to get advice about my proposal before speaking to them.

interesting that you choose to call my imaginary bees feral instead of wild. presumably this is because they would have been kept at some point before they ended up on my plot?

problems are there to be surmounted with intelligent questioning. all you need to do is make sure the goal is good



there are a lot of things against my vegan ideas. artificially inseminating insects would be one of them. taking the insects food stuff is another. replacing it with inferior food stuff is another. killing queens every so often is another. smoking hives is another. i think i've got the moral highground so far so please don't be sniffy about me being a vegan.

Hi Radged,

Although commendable, maybe a little more thought & research on the type of bees you want to encourage is needed, you may not be doing the bees any favors?

Bumble bees do make honey but colonies die out come winter leaving hibernating new queens for the next season, therefore do not make/need to put surplus stocks aside.
Whereas honeybee colonies survive from one year to the next and hopefully the next. As they do not hibernate nor die out come winter they need to produce a reserve of honey etc to carry them through until the following spring.

Bumbles live happily in small ground nests of about 200 workers, honeybee colonies on the other hand can be in excess of 50,000 workers needing lots of room to grow and store, hence hollows and swarming. Insufficient space being one of the factors that leads to swarming.

Bumble queens iirc mate with a single male, honeybees have multiple mates leading to a wide diversity of traits some good some bad.

There's much to consider even if it did seem a good idea at the time!

All the best with your endeavor.
Russell

 

[isc26]

Hi,

Given your background Bumblebees would be an obvious choice. Others have outlined the issues with keeping honeybees. You could have a look at...

http://bumblebeeconservation.org/

or possibly if honeybees were still a consideration...

http://www.naturalbeekeepingtrust.org/