Crazy Bees

[Darryl]

I have/had a lovely colony of bees in a National. They were calm and a pleasure to look after. A recent inspection (two weeks ago) showed the hive bursting with bees both on the brood and super. There were also some QCs which I removed preparing for a split. The bees were very feisty. One week later the inspection revealed a hive full of "daughters of satan" attacking everything in sight. Bee suit took over 30 hits. I couldn't see the queen nor any eggs but I didn't hang around for a closer look. Since then (three days ago) they have been just as bad attacking up to 5m from the hive. Any approach to the hive is met with a squadron bent on stinging. There are also around 40-50 live bees always on the landing board, day or night, rain or shine. The flight path into and from the hive has changed too. They always flew in more or less a straight line but now they swing round in wide arcs. Plenty of dead bees scattered around the yard so I'm not sure if they have swarmed but left no QC; I have knocked off the last QC leaving them Q- ; or there has been a big attack from robbers. Any suggestions or advice from the members please?
Thanks
Darryl

 

[Erichalfbee]

So you removed all the queen cells
Was the queen still there?
Did you do the split?

 

[Swarm]

Two weeks ago when you found cells, were they sealed or open and charged? Did you see BIAS, especially eggs? What about the queen?
When you say removed preparing for a split, do you mean you broke them down or moved them and the frame into a nuc/split?
If you removed all the cells and they had already swarmed, a week later on your last inspection, they are now in an emergency situation and probably very annoyed.

 

[jeff33]

yes, very difficult to say unless some of the above questions are answered. Bees won't go from docile to evil for no reasons, and more often than not it is our fault. This year have found mine to turn very defensive when superceeding or preparing to swarm.

You are going to have to look inside, there is no escape from it. There are options to bleed the flyiers (stinging ones) from the hive before you inspect. Look on here for relevant threads if you haven't seen them yet. You are also going to have to assess if if it is ok to do it where your hive currently is or if people may unwittingly become targets over a few days. If you think this is liely to happen move the hive somewhere else. Go at dark and block the entrance coming from the back or side so the guard don't spot you straight away.

 

[Darryl]

So you removed all the queen cells
Was the queen still there?
Did you do the split?

Did not see the Queen and didn't do a split pending advice from the forum.

Two weeks ago when you found cells, were they sealed or open and charged? Did you see BIAS, especially eggs? What about the queen?
When you say removed preparing for a split, do you mean you broke them down or moved them and the frame into a nuc/split?
If you removed all the cells and they had already swarmed, a week later on your last inspection, they are now in an emergency situation and probably very annoyed.

Cells were sealed and uncapped/capped brood but saw no eggs (had to exit quickly). Cells broken down and queen not seen. Bees annoyed (understatement).

 

[Darryl]

yes, very difficult to say unless some of the above questions are answered. Bees won't go from docile to evil for no reasons, and more often than not it is our fault. This year have found mine to turn very defensive when superceeding or preparing to swarm.

You are going to have to look inside, there is no escape from it. There are options to bleed the flyiers (stinging ones) from the hive before you inspect. Look on here for relevant threads if you haven't seen them yet. You are also going to have to assess if if it is ok to do it where your hive currently is or if people may unwittingly become targets over a few days. If you think this is liely to happen move the hive somewhere else. Go at dark and block the entrance coming from the back or side so the guard don't spot you straight away.

I beginning to suspect that I removed the QCs after they had swarmed although bee numbers seemed much the same. If so, should I introduce a new queen and take it from there, assuming the Q/eggs are not there when I inspect again?

 

[Swarm]

I beginning to suspect that I removed the QCs after they had swarmed although bee numbers seemed much the same. If so, should I introduce a new queen and take it from there, assuming the Q/eggs are not there when I inspect again?

They have swarmed and now have emergency cells, finding those will mean shaking the bees off each comb. Do you have someone who can help? It will be unpleasant, sharing often helps with the old courage levels.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if there still are Queen cells left, you need to keep one for them to make a new queen otherwise they're doomed.
Don't shake off any frames until you have found one decent QC or you may damage it, once you have found a good one, then shake the rest to tear down any others.

 

[jeff33]

I beginning to suspect that I removed the QCs after they had swarmed although bee numbers seemed much the same. If so, should I introduce a new queen and take it from there, assuming the Q/eggs are not there when I inspect again?

If they are hopelessly queenless you can but don't wait too long. If you miss a single emergency queencell your mated queen will be killed...Others may tell you differently but from my experience i have lost 3 bought in queens on introduction and all because I had missed a queen cell.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Cells were sealed and uncapped/capped brood but saw no eggs (had to exit quickly). Cells broken down and queen not seen. Bees annoyed (understatement).

So two weeks ago the colony had already likely swarmed and you took all the queen cells away.
There won’t be any left now. They would have emerged by now.
Putting a new queen in will probably get her killed
You do need somebody to go through this colony with you. Can you at least put a test frame in?

 

[bobba]

It can be very hard to find a q in a hive of angry bees, so I understand your predicament. You have 2 hives right. If you suspect one is hopelessly queenless, you could pop a frame of eggs in from the other and see what happens.

Easier to observe a single frame, then strip down a whole box of angry bees looking for a Q, that may not even be there. And if you do see bees making a Q cell on the new frame, you can let them get on with it, or pull it out and order a new Q.

In my first year of keeping I lost a queen in a swarm, I suspected my hive was queenless as I could not see a Q and there was no brood or eggs. The bees were not as bad as what yours sound, but a lot worse than normal for me. They became idle and stopped filling the supers too. They returned to normal after a month or so and I found a small brood patch. I think when bees are re-queening they can sometimes get a bit grumpy. But when the new q starts laying, they have purpose and become happy again. Its relay quite noticeable how the character of the bees suddenly picks up again.