Crazy, aggressive bees - what to do?

[enrico]

When it comes to requeening with a more docile queen, how long do folks suggest after killing the ‘old’ aggressive queen to introduce the new queen and what process? Thanks

Immediately using paper

 

[Erichalfbee]

When it comes to requeening with a more docile queen, how long do folks suggest after killing the ‘old’ aggressive queen to introduce the new queen and what process? Thanks

Usually kill the queen and introduce the new one straight away.
BUT replacing with a bought in queen may well fail with aggressive bees so it’s better uniting another colony through newspaper as discussed already

I was talking to Lawrence from Black Mountain Honey a couple of days ago and he told me that introducing a new queen immediately after killing the old one has never worked for him so he makes his receiving colonies hopelessly queenless.

 

[Etton]

I’ve never euthanised a hive before. Is it just soapy water and can you use the frames ok afterwards?

 

[Kaz]

That looks much like me with my bees. I wear jeans, sweatshirt, two long armed nitrile gloves, cuffs and wellies. They still find somewhere though. Huge sigh. Will try again today to find and kill the queen and hope they breed a nice one. If not, that's it, I'm killing them off, if for no other reason than I can't risk anything happening to people living in the vicinity.

Try marigolds under nitriles, that is almost bomb proof. I've even resorted to wearing a beanie under my hood. Better to be melting than stung all over. I have 2 colonies I'm currently dealing with (swarms i collected) and its the most unpleasant experience. Not ashamed to admit I have left them on 2 occasions with tears running down my face and swearing that I was giving up beekeeping .

If you really can't face dealing with them, maybe get in touch with your local branch and offer them for free to someone who would be willing to take them on? We have a member who is more than happy to take aggressive colonies and requeen them

 

[Kaz]

I was talking to Lawrence from Black Mountain Honey a couple of days ago and he told me that introducing a new queen immediately after killing the old one has never worked for him so he makes his receiving colonies hopelessly queenless.

I've had that advice from BMH before too, but the thought of having to go through the colony to remove the queen, then again to remove EQCs (now queenless and even more aggressive) fills me with horror so I always introduce the new Q to a small nuc first, just 2-3 frames, then unite after removing the aggressive Q. It has never failed for me

 

[fian]

When it comes to requeening with a more docile queen, how long do folks suggest after killing the ‘old’ aggressive queen to introduce the new queen and what process? Thanks

One of the reasons for moving the hive away is to create a hole for a nucleus that will collect the field bees. In that nucleus with closed breeding (majority) a new queen should not have acceptance problems.
This solution will offer enough leeway to determine what to do with the problematic queen. If in the end you decide to sacrifice it, you only have to join the two hives through a piece of newspaper.

 

[blackcloud]

I’ve never euthanised a hive before. Is it just soapy water and can you use the frames ok afterwards?

Yes.

I collect swarms almost as as voluntary work -refusing payment when offered and ask that a donation to be made to the hospice.
Collected over twenty this year and it's evident our local feral population is in an appalling state.
I end up doing this at the very least three or four times each season and that's still with very tolerant parameters.

I put a broodbox onto a crownboard and shake them off into it.
The good frames with only worker brood or just stores can be adopted by a slightly better hive straight away.
The rubbish ones and drone brood can be destroyed/recycled.
Strap a OMF over the top then follow in with fairy liquid solution until they're done.

It's the quickest kindest way for them but still doesn't make my day.
The greater good as they say.
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

One of the reasons for moving the hive away is to create a hole for a nucleus that will collect the field bees. In that nucleus with closed breeding (majority) a new queen should not have acceptance problems.
This solution will offer enough leeway to determine what to do with the problematic queen. If in the end you decide to sacrifice it, you only have to join the two hives through a piece of newspaper.

yeah, great idea, get a nuc with all the most p!ssed off bees from the colony (the foraging bees are always the most aggressive ones) add a pinch of queen loss panic to the mix then chuck a totally alien queen into the mix.

 

[user 20297]

Yes.

I collect swarms almost as as voluntary work -refusing payment when offered and ask that a donation to be made to the hospice.
Collected over twenty this year and it's evident our local feral population is in an appalling state.
I end up doing this at the very least three or four times each season and that's still with very tolerant parameters.

I put a broodbox onto a crownboard and shake them off into it.
The good frames with only worker brood or just stores can be adopted by a slightly better hive straight away.
The rubbish ones and drone brood can be destroyed/recycled.
Strap a OMF over the top then follow in with fairy liquid solution until they're done.

It's the quickest kindest way for them but still doesn't make my day.
The greater good as they say.
.

Why "appalling"? Are they diseased?

 

[blackcloud]

Behaviour and brood disorder
That photo earlier is not an uncommon scene

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've had that advice from BMH before too, but the thought of having to go through the colony to remove the queen, then again to remove EQCs (now queenless and even more aggressive) fills me with horror so I always introduce the new Q to a small nuc first, just 2-3 frames, then unite after removing the aggressive Q. It has never failed for me

Ditto. Never failed me either.
To be clear, we were talking about replacing a queen in a full size colony with one in a transport cage

 

[Erichalfbee]

One of the reasons for moving the hive away is to create a hole for a nucleus that will collect the field bees. In that nucleus with closed breeding (majority) a new queen should not have acceptance problems.
This solution will offer enough leeway to determine what to do with the problematic queen. If in the end you decide to sacrifice it, you only have to join the two hives through a piece of newspaper.

In my experience the foragers are the nastiest. It’s better to use two frames of capped brood and shake in the bees from open brood plus a few from a super to be sure of having enough bees in there.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve never euthanised a hive before. Is it just soapy water and can you use the frames ok afterwards?

I’ve done it this way.
Travel screen in place of crownboard
Inspection tray in
In the evening close the entrance. Pour a bucket of soapy water evenly through the screen.
Clean up in the morning
Yes you can use the frames.

 

[Kaz]

Ditto. Never failed me either.
To be clear, we were talking about replacing a queen in a full size colony with one in a transport cage

Yes, for that I don't risk introducing direct, I always pull out a nuc and introduce to that first, then remove the original queen and unite with the nuc. I haven't dared to risk introducing a new Q direct into a stroppy full hive. Maybe I'm just over cautious?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe I'm just over cautious?

No you’re not. Stroppy bees are queen killers.

 

[fian]

yeah, great idea, get a nuc with all the most p!ssed off bees from the colony (the foraging bees are always the most aggressive ones) add a pinch of queen loss panic to the mix then chuck a totally alien queen into the mix.

I think you have not understood.

 

[fian]

In my experience the foragers are the nastiest. It’s better to use two frames of capped brood and shake in the bees from open brood plus a few from a super to be sure of having enough bees in there.

The closed brood and the new queen come from another hive. This hive is arranged in the hole left by the aggressive hive, collecting the foragers. When these foragers find few nurses and a lot of closed breeding, they partially "rejuvenate" reversing part of their aggressiveness.
After analyzing the cause of the problematic hive's aggressiveness you can make a decision

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think you have not understood.

I understood perfectly

This hive is arranged in the hole left by the aggressive hive, collecting the foragers

Doubtful you do.
All the foragers (the most aggressive bees in the colony) will return to a box minus their 'own' queen and with alien nurse bees, brood and queen.
Bad bad move

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think you have not understood.

Fian.
Have you tried this yourself?

 

[fian]

Fian.
Have you tried this yourself?

Yes, 2 or 3 times this year with different hives.
Bees are sociable beings, so stress is the main source of their aggressiveness. Once the source of stress is eliminated, they return to their ordinary behavior and this is usually inside the hive. For this reason, the substitution manages to reduce the aggressiveness of the foragers.