Couple of questions after today’s inspection

[StephenT]

One of the hives is a small swarm I hived in May and now on a single brood box. They had next to no stores and so I have fed them a few kg’s of syrup over the last couple of weeks. I clearly made the mistake of overfeeding as they’re storing it and there’s not enough room for brood now. I’m extracting from another hive later anyway and so should I spin out a few frames, discard the syrup and put the empty frames back?

Put a clearer board on the hive we are extracting from and quickly inspected the main brood box. Marked queen was there + this lovely looking QC. Even though the current queen is a new one they made after AS split in May, I guess they are superseding. I’m going to leave it well alone for the bees to get on with it. Should I wait a couple of weeks until the new queen is mated and laying before feeding and treating with Apivar? They have plenty of stores in the brood and a half to keep them going.

 

[captain666]

Hi Stephen.

What strength was the syrup?

If you made it up as a heavy (strong) syrup as for winter feed, 1kg sugar to 0.5 litre of water, (2:1), they will store this as it's too strong for immediate use.

A light syrup for stimulation and immediate use would be 1kg/1 litre, (1:1)

I suggest you simply shake the syrup out. You can save this and remix to a weaker strength if you wish. Or, you might leave one syrup frame either side of the brood box if it's heavy syrup, for they will reduce the water content. Leave this for the bees and do not consume as honey.

Strong feed goes on soon after taking off the honey crop. The queen will be reducing her laying rate now so cells for storage will gradually become available.

I would leave that queen cell alone as you are going to do.

Fred.

 

[StephenT]

Thanks Fred. It was thin syrup which they have been storing to the quite severe detriment of brood space. I’ll try shaking some out of frames with no brood in them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks Fred. It was thin syrup which they have been storing to the quite severe detriment of brood space. I’ll try shaking some out of frames with no brood in them.

There, as you have seen for yourself bees will store 1;1 as well as 2;1 and they will also store fondant.
I have only ever offered 2;1 or invert
Bees will draw comb quite happily on it
I think much is made of syrup concentration but I don't think it makes much difference. If the bees have the room and no immediate need they will store whatever you offer.
If you want them to draw comb then intermittent feeding might be the way to go. If you want them to store it, as in feeding for winter you give them syrup fast and in quantity.

 

[captain666]

Thanks Fred. It was thin syrup which they have been storing to the quite severe detriment of brood space. I’ll try shaking some out of frames with no brood in them.

Stephen, not saying you did but with stimulus feeding you should not give too much at one time.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There, as you have seen for yourself bees will store 1;1 as well as 2;1 and they will also store fondant.
I have only ever offered 2;1 or invert
Bees will draw comb quite happily on it
I think much is made of syrup concentration but I don't think it makes much difference. If the bees have the room and no immediate need they will store whatever you offer.
If you want them to draw comb then intermittent feeding might be the way to go. If you want them to store it, as in feeding for winter you give them syrup fast and in quantity.

It's just another much parroted mantra (not fact) I don't think I have ever mixed 1:1 syrup, always 2:1, nowadays for my own convenience I use invert Even heavier than 2:1 and I have yet to see bees not drawing comb on it because it's the 'wrong' concentration.
The same as I have seen bees store fondant by the kilo - the 'experts' will tell you they never do and only use it when starving - in fact, only lately I've heard one say that bees don't need water to assimilate fondant!!

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's just another much parroted mantra (not fact) I don't think I have ever mixed 1:1 syrup, always 2:1, nowadays for my own convenience I use invert Even heavier than 2:1 and I have yet to see bees not drawing comb on it because it's the 'wrong' concentration.
The same as I have seen bees store fondant by the kilo - the 'experts' will tell you they never do and only use it when starving - in fact, only lately I've heard one say that bees don't need water to assimilate fondant!!

There is a theory circulating that giving fondant is a sure fire way to avoid contaminating your honey. I wonder if these theorists actually realise what bees do to the fondant. Perhaps they think they cut it into pieces and pack it into the cells piecemeal.
Still, there are crackpot ideas all over the place. Most do no harm.We all keep our bees differently and most of us get away with what we do. Bees are incredibly adaptable

 

[StephenT]

Stephen, not saying you did but with stimulus feeding you should not give too much at one time.

I did give too much at one time. Another lesson hopefully learnt.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

here are crackpot ideas all over the place. Most do no harm.

Unfortunately, it's these self professed 'experts' that convince beginners that theirs is the only way, they usually listen and it's up to others to clean up the mess.

 

[StephenT]

There, as you have seen for yourself bees will store 1;1 as well as 2;1 and they will also store fondant.
I have only ever offered 2;1 or invert
Bees will draw comb quite happily on it
I think much is made of syrup concentration but I don't think it makes much difference. If the bees have the room and no immediate need they will store whatever you offer.
If you want them to draw comb then intermittent feeding might be the way to go. If you want them to store it, as in feeding for winter you give them syrup fast and in quantity.

The reason I fed them was because they were completely lacking stores, not feeding for winter. I just fed too much too quickly. I’ll check in a few days to see if they have used some of it and made space for brood. If not then should I empty a couple of frames to give them space?

I used fondant at the end of August last year on the one hive I had then and found it very convenient and the bees took it down and had a good amount of stores for winter. I plan to do the same in a couple of weeks on the 3 hives I have now.

 

[captain666]

Stephen said; < I used fondant at the end of August last year ...>

I wait until about mid-January before putting fondant on. By then they will have gone well into their nearest honey stores before they work on the hard set ivy honey to the sides. Usually I end up with some untouched ivy frames which are handy for next year's nucs.

I find fondant a great insurance against isolation starvation.

Fred.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The reason I fed them was because they were completely lacking stores, not feeding for winter. I just fed too much too quickly. I’ll check in a few days to see if they have used some of it and made space for brood. If not then should I empty a couple of frames to give them space?

I used fondant at the end of August last year on the one hive I had then and found it very convenient and the bees took it down and had a good amount of stores for winter. I plan to do the same in a couple of weeks on the 3 hives I have now.

Yes easy enough to spin a frame or two out.
Some beekeepers do feed fondant as their autumn food. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Put a whole block cut in half onto a QX and that’s your entire winter feed done in one go.
https://www.theapiarist.org/feeding-fondant/

 

[StephenT]

Yes easy enough to spin a frame or two out.
Some beekeepers do feed fondant as their autumn food. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Put a whole block cut in half onto a QX and that’s your entire winter feed done in one go.
https://www.theapiarist.org/feeding-fondant/

I gave the hive about a 10kg slab of fondant on top of a QX last autumn after reading the Apiarist blog. Works out more expensive than buying sugar but was minimal faff and worked well for me and the bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Works out more expensive than buying sugar but was minimal faff and worked well for me and the bees.

Where did you get your fondant from? the best trick is to try and find an independent baker and ask them nicely (after explaining what it's for) whether they could sell you a couple of slabs of baker's fondant. Last year's wholesale price was around about £7.00 for a 12.5 kilo slab if I recall.

 

[StephenT]

Where did you get your fondant from? the best trick is to try and find an independent baker and ask them nicely (after explaining what it's for) whether they could sell you a couple of slabs of baker's fondant. Last year's wholesale price was around about £7.00 for a 12.5 kilo slab if I recall.

Got a 12.5kg block from Simon the Beekeeping last year but will check out cheaper supplies this year as I have more hives now Most the ‘bakers’ around here are a bit too hipster to use fondant though.