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Converting from standard to deep brood - help

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simonorchard 

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Hi
I am a brand new beekeeper in London. I have a national hive with 14x12 brood box and deep fames of foundation to fit. However I have just purchased bees (1 week ago) on 8 frames of standard. And at the time of purchasing the guy added 2 frames of my 14x12 foundation into the brood box - so it has 8 standard brood frames and 2 frames of 14x12 foundation. How do I work the standard frames out to replace with my new deep foundation? Obviously I don't want to waste any brood so is there a way of stopping the queen laying on the old frames so that I can just wait until the brood has all hatched, brush off the bees and remove the frame, replacing with the deep frames?
thanks for any help
 
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The standard way is to work the frames you want to remove towards the sides and take them out when they have no brood on them, on the assumption the queen is unlikely to lay in the outer frames too often, assuming you have a wooden hive. However, you have a lot to get rid of so if you have a second brood chamber just put that on top, full of the correct frames and foundation. When the bees have drawn out some of the comb the queen should start to lay up there, but if she doesn't go up on her own then lift her up on a frame from below and then slip a queen excluder between the two boxes. Discard the lower box after 21 days. If you don't have or can't borrow a second deep brood box put the frames there now in 3 shallow supers stacked on top of each other or a standard brood box and one super. Your one good deep brood box goes on top with the new frames. The extra gap above the floor won't matter but you want the correct space between the boxes. Feed the bees while all this is going on to encourage them to draw out the comb. A contact feeder is probably best as it will offer food more slowly.

The alternative approach would be a shook swarm but only if the colony is strong and then you must feed heavily afterwards.
 

MuswellMetro 

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Hi
I am a brand new beekeeper in London. I have a national hive with 14x12 brood box and deep fames of foundation to fit. However I have just purchased bees (1 week ago) on 8 frames of standard. And at the time of purchasing the guy added 2 frames of my 14x12 foundation into the brood box - so it has 8 standard brood frames and 2 frames of 14x12 foundation. How do I work the standard frames out to replace with my new deep foundation? Obviously I don't want to waste any brood so is there a way of stopping the queen laying on the old frames so that I can just wait until the brood has all hatched, brush off the bees and remove the frame, replacing with the deep frames?
thanks for any help
if you just add 14x12 into the middle of the brood, the bees may not draw the frames properly ( ie the will just draw it to the size of standard frames). you could do a bailley change. if you have not got two brood boxes, you can use supers

so make a temp brood box out of two supers or one super and 75mm eke on you omf floor, place your eight standard frames in the temp brood box, ( you can do a baiiley change frrom 14x12 frames as well with two supers but bit tight on the floor bee space so be careful), fill up the empty space with a peice of polystyrene frame size in a poly bagas a dummy frame then put your QX on.

place your normal14 x12 brood box on top of the temp brood and say six new frames plus two dummies either side ( include the two you had already if not drawn) and FEED FEED FEED 1:1 sugar syrup, keep swaping out 14x12 drawn framesto the isde and adding new in centre until you have 11 drawn frames


ok, now kit up well, mid day all bees out foraging and find the queen on frame and take it and two other brood frames and shake into a carbouard box, cover with manipluation cloth

replace brood frames in temp brood box, QX on, 14x12 brood and 11 drawn 14x12 frames,. Then empty queen and bees from box into 14x12 brood , crown and roof on (fun time)
, bees everywhere)
leave for 7 days, inspect,x,( queen right and queen cells in lower brood) leave for 7 days then 7 days and the brood in the temp shoud all be hatched, ( except drones), scratch all caps off honey cells, leave for 7 days then remove the temp brood box and frames...dry them off laying one of two above your crown board ( or keep them for autum feed...watch out for wasps getting at stored frames)

so do not use aQX, until the queen move up naturally , but ifind that caues more queen cells

and you will get many version of this method
 
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Midland Beek 

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You cannot expect to get the small frames out within the timescale of a couple of weeks. Aim to to have the small frames removed by the end of the season. You need to manipulate the frames throughout the season so that come the end all of the small frames have been removed. This is a process which essentially involves the careful rotation of frames to get the small ones at the edges, so that they can be taken away.

I certainly would not bother with another brood box on top or shook swarm. And as for what Muswell Metro has suggested, well, I would suggest that you have got better things to do with your time.

You know, some aspects of beekeeping take a little time and patience.
 

MuswellMetro 

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simon, as you problable expected, some like simple ways, others like the bailey change, we are beekeepers we all disagree :party:, that the fun of this forum.

i come from just outside Harpenden in north herts and my grandfather supplied bee frames to Mr Bailley at Rothamspstead bee unit. so he was always a fan of a bailey change...and so am i, fresh clean comb,and less damage than a shook swarm. i am doing it my way, in late may/ealry June with a Nuc

the choice is yours, not mine, the Bees will do their own thing anyway

Geoff
 

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