Common hive smell

[Hiveanidea]

In order to manage colonies which began swarming signs in May and due to not having enough room/ kit at the time, l opted to do vertical splits. Now at the start of July, and hopefully with the main flow beginning, l want to reunite/downsize some of tall ones. Firstly, because they have been stacked vertically with double meshed split boards, what advantage does a ‘common hive smell’ have when reuniting them? Clearly, one colony has to be de-queened in some way, but do l need to use the newspaper method or can l simply remove one layer of mesh, or the whole split board?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just take one queen away

 

[Hiveanidea]

So, let me get this right, are you saying it is as straightforward as’ taking one queen away’.....then, l take it, immediately removing the split board completely and because of a ‘common hive smell’ the two vertical colonies will just mingle peacefully? There are currently supers in between so will this apparently simple procedure work seamlessly?

 

[Brian Bush]

Yes it should work OK

 

[Hiveanidea]

Apart from the difficulty of inspecting the lower brood box when bees in the upper box are flying around wondering where their home went, l’m liking it more now l know that re-uniting is that easy. Having tall hive stacks is another matter, but at least, for practicality alone, the combined bees will soon have a common entrance at the floor proper and all the supers will be together on top. In flying bee terms, will they adjust to not being in the ‘penthouse‘ and redirect to the basement in just one day or do l need to keep an entrance high up?

 

[Do224]

In order to manage colonies which began swarming signs in May and due to not having enough room/ kit at the time, l opted to do vertical splits. Now at the start of July, and hopefully with the main flow beginning, l want to reunite/downsize some of tall ones. Firstly, because they have been stacked vertically with double meshed split boards, what advantage does a ‘common hive smell’ have when reuniting them? Clearly, one colony has to be de-queened in some way, but do l need to use the newspaper method or can l simply remove one layer of mesh, or the whole split board?

If you reunite them back together won’t they just try and swarm again? If not, why not?

 

[Erichalfbee]

To avoid that you keep the new queen

 

[Hiveanidea]

The remaining queen will have the space of two brood boxes (which, of course may have prevented swarm preps in the first place, had l done that in early May). l’m thinking that combining the vertical splits now, will also create a large foraging force at a time when the remaining queen’s laying rate might peak.

 

[IndiBee]

Personally I would go to a single screen before final combining. I use single screens quite a bit.

 

[Hiveanidea]

Personally I would go to a single screen before final combining. I use single screens quite a bit.

I can see your thinking......and l’m starting to see pigeons flying! Shall l ......should l?

 

[user 819]

If the colonies have the same aroma by way of a a screened board then I simply remove the older Q and rearrange to a DB set up. Save one Q and make up a 6F nuc with 2 or 3 frames of brood.

A big colony now should be making good use of any flow so will be busy. I arrived at my village out apiary this afternoon and as I approached the hives the aroma of forage was very strong, they are on it that's for sure.

 

[Do224]

The remaining queen will have the space of two brood boxes (which, of course may have prevented swarm preps in the first place, had l done that in early May). l’m thinking that combining the vertical splits now, will also create a large foraging force at a time when the remaining queen’s laying rate might peak.

Ahh right, I thought you meant your were condensing down to one brood box to reduce the height of the stack....

How come the foraging force will be increased if the brood boxes are together rather than separated by supers...won’t it be the same amount of bees either way?

 

[Hiveanidea]

Ahh right, I thought you meant your were condensing down to one brood box to reduce the height of the stack....

How come the foraging force will be increased if the brood boxes are together rather than separated by supers...won’t it be the same amount of bees either way?

True, but l’m thinking the combined bees will only have to service the needs of one queen, releasing more bees available for ‘flow’ foraging duties some time soon. Would that be a workable notion?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

True, but l’m thinking the combined bees will only have to service the needs of one queen,

Only a half dozen bees are needed to 'service' the queen. Two queens means more brood which means many more foraging bees coming online daily.

 

[Hiveanidea]

Only a half dozen bees are needed to 'service' the queen. Two queens means more brood which means many more foraging bees coming online daily.

Ok,yes,however,‘service needs’ was meant in general terms but could have been much better expressed. What l intended to say was service the needs of the colony, headed by a queen. The ratio of nectar foragers to ’domestic bees’ must be proportional, in the main, to the number of eggs being laid and subsequently to larvae being fed etc. In roughly a week’s time all of the brood from the united box will be sealed/hatching and with no more eggs than just one queen can lay - what are those extra bees to do? l’d like some comments on my strategy: always to re-unite the vertical split at some stage as an increase in hives not desired. Re-queening from or de-queening of the split, according to quality of the new queen. Timing a temporary foraging boost to match a hoped for main flow and eventually to reduce to one box for overwintering. Have l got it right?......if all uncertainties hold good.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Killing one queen won't 'boost' your forager numbers, quite the opposite in fact.
Some of my most productive colonies over the years have been double queen colonies.

 

[North End Bees]

Yes, but the foraging force has already been built up.
If the main flow is in July (e.g not building up for the heather), might as well nuc the second queen now and consolidate existing brood. Any new bees aren't going to contribute to your foraging force.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Any new bees aren't going to contribute to your foraging force.

But they will replace the current nurse bees which will then be released to join the foraging force. or are you one of these that believes house bees can't fly?
Also, extra house bees are needed to receive the nectar from the foragers and to join the bees ripening the honey in the night when the foragers are resting.

 

[North End Bees]

Any brood laid by the Queen from now on won't be even a house bee for 3 weeks, let alone a forager..

 

[Hiveanidea]

Killing one queen won't 'boost' your forager numbers, quite the opposite in fact.
Some of my most productive colonies over the years have been double queen colonies.

So, in structural terms, unite/combine brood boxes from the vertical split stack with a queen excluder in between and a queen either side? I may have to look this up but perhaps you could give me the short answer but if yes, already l can see l’ll need a separate entrance for drone escape. The best part in all this would be a way to move brood boxes from on high so as to look more easily at the basement bees.