Comb trapping for Varroa control - When to start?

[Erichalfbee]

maybe it's the new 'shook swarm'?

I hope it never takes off......more of an oddity perhaps..... Zoom and YouTube have a lot to answer for

 

[Boston Bees]

I hope it never takes off......more of an oddity perhaps..... Zoom and YouTube have a lot to answer for

I am fairly sure that nowhere on any of these presentations is the likely number of drones to be slaughtered during this process specified.

10,000 per hive maybe?

Humane? Moral?

Still, it's chemical free, so it must be OK.

 

[drex]

Thanks...I wondered why. I suppose they do it because they can. Some people devise more and more complicated ways to manipulate their colonies. Me...I'm a simple person and vaping works and isn't intrusive.

Sorry Dani. I vape as my favoured method, but I would not call enveloping my bees in a cloud of oxalic acid not " intrusive", but I know what you mean.
It is a simple effective procedure. I first heard of the queen trapping technique on the Raplh Buchler lectures, and thought I could see how it worked , but dismissed it for me as too much interference over too long a time. Felt pity for those bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry Dani. I vape as my favoured method, but I would not call enveloping my bees in a cloud of oxalic acid not " intrusive", but I know what you mean.
It is a simple effective procedure. I first heard of the queen trapping technique on the Raplh Buchler lectures, and thought I could see how it worked , but dismissed it for me as too much interference over too long a time. Felt pity for those bees.

Yes intrusive was undoubtedly the wrong word

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I suppose they do it because they can. Some people devise more and more complicated ways to manipulate their colonies.

It seems to be a common disease - the compulsion to constantly fiddle around with their bees

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Yes intrusive was undoubtedly the wrong word

Maybe needlessly intrusive?

 

[pargyle]

maybe it's the new 'shook swarm'?

He advocates that as well ... and in order for the drone comb removal to wokr he advocates caging the queen for up to 25 days prior to autumn .... however in a paper he has written he has this to say:

"The efficacy of queen caging depended on the mode of oxalic acid application and ranged from 48.16% to 89.57% mite removal. The highest efficacies were achieved with trickling a 4.2% solution (89.57%) and with the sublimation of 2 g of oxalic acid (average of 88.25%) in the broodless period. The efficacy of the purely biotechnical, chemical-free trapping comb and brood removal methods did not differ significantly from the queen caging groups. We conclude that a proper application of one of the described brood interruption methods can significantly contribute to an efficient Varroa control and to the production of honey bee products meeting the highest quality and food-safety standards. "

Perhaps we should take notice of that and stick to OA by sublimation ?

 

[pargyle]

Yes intrusive was undoubtedly the wrong word

I don't think so ... unlike a lot of other treatments the bees don't seem to bother about it much - they don't teem out of the hive gasping for breath and it's all over in a matter of minutes - by comparison to most other mite treatments is it not intrusive ...

 

[user 20297]

I don't think so ... unlike a lot of other treatments the bees don't seem to bother about it much - they don't teem out of the hive gasping for breath and it's all over in a matter of minutes - by comparison to most other mite treatments is it not intrusive ...

or is it?

............. I vape as my favoured method, but I would not call enveloping my bees in a cloud of oxalic acid not " intrusive", but I know what you mean.

I've never thought of gassing any sort of creatures as something I want to do......even if it is supposed to be the lesser of two evils. It's hardly any more appealing than destroying their developing pupae even if it can be proven to be less inefficient.

 

[BugsInABox]

or is it?



I've never thought of gassing any sort of creatures as something I want to do......even if it is supposed to be the lesser of two evils. It's hardly any more appealing than destroying their developing pupae even if it can be proven to be less inefficient.

I vapped half of a split this year whilst they were brood-less and it happened the little Perspex window I have was open- seeing them cramming to the far side of the long hive trying to get away from the fumes was quite upsetting.

 

[Sutty]

I vapped half of a split this year whilst they were brood-less and it happened the little Perspex window I have was open- seeing them cramming to the far side of the long hive trying to get away from the fumes was quite upsetting.

It would only upset me because it indicates uneven exposure, you WANT them to be exposed to the OA!

 

[pargyle]

or is it?

I've never thought of gassing any sort of creatures as something I want to do......even if it is supposed to be the lesser of two evils. It's hardly any more appealing than destroying their developing pupae even if it can be proven to be less inefficient.

Firstly, it's not a gas - by the time it gets into the hive it's a cloud of very fine powder - in some respects it's not different to subjecting them to icing sugar.

They do not move away from the OA - they move away from the heat.

You don't necessarily want to cover the bees in OA - I've watched through the clear crownboard and the sublimate drops out very quickly and settles on the frames. The OA works by the mites walking about on it and absorbing the stuff through their pads and it kills them. The bees appear to be totally oblivious to the stuff.

There are so many misconceptions about OA by sublimation .... I'm a non-treater as I dislike adding anything into my colonies that they have not willingly introduced themselves but, in the event that I had a colony that was not managing the varroa themselves it would be the only go to treatment as far as I'm concerned.

I've used it on other colonies that I look after and it really is by far and away the kindest treatment there is for varroa infested colonies.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

OK. Putting head above parapet here. I did comb trapping for the first time last year on 3 colonies.

Where I successfully removed 3 frames it worked but. . .

I regret destroying 3 frames from each colony. 3 colonies/9 frames. If I do it again I'd donate them to another colony and treat that with chemicals. This is what a comb looks like after you've kept the queen on it for 8 days and then let it be capped, both sides.


I fumbled the transfer of a queen and lost her after frame 2. It's chaotic finding queen, getting hold of her and releasing her on a new frame when the first thing she does is leg it.

Back to the OP, I did it in July, because that's when Herr Buchler did it. At the end of the process the hive population has dropped significantly so don't do it too late. They need to rebuild into autumn.

Last year I had only 3 big colonies but this I've got 6 so don't have enough queen excluder. It is so much easier to use chemicals but I don't have to do what the commercial guys do.

. . . . Ben

Edit: Don't like the idea of these queen cages for 3 weeks. Stopping the queen from laying and forcing the mites onto the bees.

 

[SteveG]

View attachment 27059

OK. Putting head above parapet here. I did comb trapping for the first time last year on 3 colonies.

Where I successfully removed 3 frames it worked but. . .

I regret destroying 3 frames from each colony. 3 colonies/9 frames. If I do it again I'd donate them to another colony and treat that with chemicals. This is what a comb looks like after you've kept the queen on it for 8 days and then let it be capped, both sides.
View attachment 27060View attachment 27060

I fumbled the transfer of a queen and lost her after frame 2. It's chaotic finding queen, getting hold of her and releasing her on a new frame when the first thing she does is leg it.

Back to the OP, I did it in July, because that's when Herr Buchler did it. At the end of the process the hive population has dropped significantly so don't do it too late. They need to rebuild into autumn.

Last year I had only 3 big colonies but this I've got 6 so don't have enough queen excluder. It is so much easier to use chemicals but I don't have to do what the commercial guys do.

. . . . Ben

Morning, thanks for the your post, thought there must be other brave soles willing to take the forum wrath.

thought 2nd week of July with the season late this year.

good idea to give the brood to weaker hives I planned to treat the old way.

thanks again

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Morning, thanks for the your post, thought there must be other brave soles willing to take the forum wrath.

There's a clown in every circus.

 

[Erichalfbee]

View attachment 27059

OK. Putting head above parapet here. I did comb trapping for the first time last year on 3 colonies.

Where I successfully removed 3 frames it worked but. . .

I regret destroying 3 frames from each colony. 3 colonies/9 frames. If I do it again I'd donate them to another colony and treat that with chemicals. This is what a comb looks like after you've kept the queen on it for 8 days and then let it be capped, both sides.
View attachment 27060View attachment 27060

I fumbled the transfer of a queen and lost her after frame 2. It's chaotic finding queen, getting hold of her and releasing her on a new frame when the first thing she does is leg it.

Back to the OP, I did it in July, because that's when Herr Buchler did it. At the end of the process the hive population has dropped significantly so don't do it too late. They need to rebuild into autumn.

Last year I had only 3 big colonies but this I've got 6 so don't have enough queen excluder. It is so much easier to use chemicals but I don't have to do what the commercial guys do.

. . . . Ben

Edit: Don't like the idea of these queen cages for 3 weeks. Stopping the queen from laying and forcing the mites onto the bees.

Can I ask why you would be ok with moving those frames to another colony and treating them?
Presuming this is a way of not using “chemicals” why not do the whole apiary rather than just a selected colony?
Would you do it again, though?

 

[elainemary]

Plan to try Comb trapping this season for the first time on several of my larger colonies.
With my Suffolk location any recommendations on when to start the trapping this season making the most of the summer flow?

Steve
There’s a thread on the subject of queen caging on here, which I started last winter. Everything was said at the time so won’t get into a repeat of it here, other than to say it’s similar principle to comb trapping, but the queen is held in a cage that workers have access in & out of, to tend the queen. All the pros and cons are debated and is backed by many years of study by Ralph Buchler and researchers on several hundred colonies The queen has a brood laying break rather than removing brood.

To answer your question, I plan to do sugar shakes on my colonies first to identify which colonies to select for my ‘trial’, then start queen caging on 2 colonies, in about a weeks time for 3 weeks. By then all the foragers will be produced for my late summer flow in August / Sept and ahead of winter bees being produced from end August, the queen will be released around 1st /2nd week August.

Queen caging / trapping is Ralph’s only method of varroa control now and works well for him. So I’m going to give it a try.

Pics below of the comb I’ve prepared and the size of the cage vs normal queen introduction cages. I sourced the cages from the main supplier in Italy though Thornes sell them.

Be good to stay in touch with you re findings late summer and next spring when over wintering and strength into spring vs other colonies treated with conventional methods, can be compared.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/queen-cage-varroa-management.49511/

 

[Erichalfbee]

There's a clown in every circus.

I think it’s because people see a different way of fiddling and think they might have a go.
I quite like to stand on the shoulders of giants and I don’t have to try everything before I come to my own conclusions. I’m happy to let others make the mistakes.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I vapped half of a split this year whilst they were brood-less and it happened the little Perspex window I have was open- seeing them cramming to the far side of the long hive trying to get away from the fumes was quite upsetting.

Really? it's not what I have observed. Due to having the luxury of UFE's I vape from under the OMF and don't bother shutting the bees in (absolutely no need to) and I usually step way back from the hive so I can observe what is happening. Apart from the increase in fanning as the sublimate rises in the hive, the only thing I have observed is the bees carrying on with their business as if nothing out of the ordinary was happening - bees leaving and entering the hive without any fuss at all.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I vape from the top so don't close porch. Vaping from the top doesn't seem to hit the bees with any heat either so I don't even get the fanning. After 30 seconds or so a little sublimate usually escapes at the bottom so I know it's got there