Colonies that don't swarm

[Beagle23]

One of my hives shows no sign of swarming, the queen's laying well, it's teeming with bees and they're doing great work, I just whisked off the second full super.
If they don't swarm this will be my first year with a colony that either hasn't swarmed or been split, and I'm curious as to how the dynamics of the hive will vary from a colony which has reduced in numbers. I assume I'll need to keep a close eye on stores in the June gap (not that it's much of a gap down here in Surrey)?


I gave the queen much more room than I ordinarily would back in March and she was laying right up into the third super for a time. Easily the best bees I've had in terms of temperament and productivity, so I'll be thrilled if the queen stays for another year.

 

[eltalia]

Are you using FD wholly or something else?

Bill

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just words again!

 

[drex]

To the OP I would have added " yet". It is still early in the season.
If the queen is so valuable to you, you could put her in a nucs with support staff, and bleed brood from the nuc. That way you will not risk losing her genetics if you intend to breed from her. Also a method of swarm control

 

[madasafish]

One of my hives shows no sign of swarming, the queen's laying well, it's teeming with bees and they're doing great work, I just whisked off the second full super.
If they don't swarm this will be my first year with a colony that either hasn't swarmed or been split, and I'm curious as to how the dynamics of the hive will vary from a colony which has reduced in numbers. I assume I'll need to keep a close eye on stores in the June gap (not that it's much of a gap down here in Surrey)?


I gave the queen much more room than I ordinarily would back in March and she was laying right up into the third super for a time. Easily the best bees I've had in terms of temperament and productivity, so I'll be thrilled if the queen stays for another year.

I had a lovely Buckfast queen who lived until 5 years old, never swarmed and v. gentle. Supersceded last year with equally good temperament...

 

[eltalia]

Just words again!

Now there is a sure sign of ignorance... did not your kindy teacher
convey one has to know first to know the question(s) to ask.
Anything else just being plain ol' Attention Seeking.

Brat Corner for you seeing as how;
1. You're bound to blow a valve.
2. Respect for your betters is not in any of those mantras you love to draw on.

/whistle/
/10 ----> Sin Bin/

Ciao

 

[Dadnlad]

I know that weather conditions and space to lay play a major role in whether a colony swarms, but genetics plays a part too

I have attempted over the years to try to not keep queens from swarmy bees, trying to raise queens from splits/ss/grafting

So far this year only one (out of 12) production hives has attempted to swarm (I've AS'd)

When I checked through my notes I found she was the SS daughter of a prime that arrived this time last year
So maybe it's in her genes to want to bugger off, regardless of conditions or space

I'll reunite the AS before the summer flow but extinguish her line before winter

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

2. Respect for your betters is not in any of those mantras you love to draw on.

Since you have ably demonstarated that most would struggle to construe you as their 'better' all you have done is added arrogance to the ignorance you demonstrate so well

 

[beeno]

All my colonies are originally from swarm collections and I don't consider that I have swarmy bees. I think it is a myth perpetuated by beekeepers who prefer to sell bees or incompetent beekeeping whilst acknowledging that there is a genetic aspect to it as well which I am yet to experience.

 

[foghornleghorn]

It might be just pure luck. They could have the genetics that will average 80+% trying to swarm and still produce some that will make no effort to swarm in their lifetime

 

[Beagle23]

moving away from the will she/won't she question. I'm interested in hearing how keeping a large colony that hasn't swarmed differs through May/June, compared with one that has been reduced through swarming or splitting

 

[foghornleghorn]

moving away from the will she/won't she question. I'm interested in hearing how keeping a large colony that hasn't swarmed differs through May/June, compared with one that has been reduced through swarming or splitting

Most likely for here is they get a few days of bad weather or a dearth and become unstable and think of swarming. Otherwise they're just a very strong colony for main flow

 

[mjt68]

If they've more or less filled brood box with brood will be relying on supers for supplies, make sure they have enough to cope with weather forecast. Make sure there's enough boxes so they don't get too congested.

If flow comes to an end then in addition to thinking about stores, they might get quite assertive in using a large population to protect their honey. If so inclined, they may rob out weaker colonies or nucs, take care with hive entrances and don't slosh honey about the place.

 

[Finman]

.
Swarming is honeybees' only way to reproduce. It is natural healthy instinct, what they do.
Nonswarmy bees are result of breeding and selection.
It is hard work to keep non swarmy apiary. It is easier to make AS when queen cells appear.

In small apiary inbreeding is bigger problem than swarm control.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

It's still early, so they could swarm yet!

After selecting for a few years, my colonies are not too swarmy so I see big colonies through into autumn. (Typically 14 - 20 frames of brood). If there is a lack of nectar, they can munch through stores quite quickly - but as has been said, it's a bigger colony for the blackberry flow, so should do well.
Don't forget that a large colony needs space for bees so will need supers on, even if they are nearly empty.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

.
Swarming is honeybees' only way to reproduce. It is natural healthy instinct, what they do.
Nonswarmy bees are result of breeding and selection.
It is hard work to keep non swarmy apiary. It is easier to make AS when queen cells appear.

In small apiary inbreeding is bigger problem than swarm control.

Makes me wonder if breeding out the swarming instinct is the right thing to do, as reducing the reproductive drive can't be good for the bees, just better for the keepers.

 

[eltalia]

moving away from the will she/won't she question.

Yes... as nobody knows unless the management style is laid out.
You never went there so guesses are all that question could hope to
reap.

I'm interested in hearing how keeping a large colony that hasn't swarmed
differs through May/June, compared with one that has been reduced through swarming or splitting

The condition you are now laying out is known as "critical mass" - maintaining
same without swarm issue sorts the sheepdogs from the sheep... in Apis.*
husbandry terms. There was a thread run on this very thing recently, with
video tutorial.

Bill

 

[Finman]

Makes me wonder if breeding out the swarming instinct is the right thing to do, .

So the real bee breeders do. Buckfast is a good example.

 

[Finman]

The condition you are now laying out is known as "critical mass"

Bill

Swarming has nothing to do with "critical mass". It is an instinct of reproduction of honeybees.

I have not seen in Australian swarming control texts any "critical mass" terms. From where you have got it?


Laying out??? = too few boxes when the colony grows? Or the hive is too full of honey.
.

 

[madasafish]

My larger colonies have brood breaks in bad weather. Stopped Q egg laying in past 2 weeks: just restarting again.

I gave them extra space before the bad weather so no swarming occurred.

Others rear bees from swarms and are suprised that their colonies swarm: when they are selecting for swarming!