Charity status for local beekeeping associations

[Blacky50]

Hi

The BBKA is proposing to move to CIO status. I would be interested in any experiences anyone has had of moving their local Association to this status.

Thanks

 

[MartinL]

It seems to work for big business' like the National Trust, Cat's Protection etc.
Their CEO's to pull in 6 fig salaries and they can afford 7 fig advertising budgets too?

Don't suppose there would be any saving for those at the bottom of the pile (i.e. members)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi

The BBKA is proposing to move to CIO status. I would be interested in any experiences anyone has had of moving their local Association to this status.

Thanks

I think you're talking of Charitable Incorporated Organisations? It's good protection for trustees only having a liability of a pound and unlike full charitable status you don't need to submit accounts to companies house every year with all the accompanying paperwork and penalties. I think you have to have a minimum turnover of £8,000.00 - no problem with the amount BBKA rake in every year but way outside our association's reach - and many others

IIRC it doesn't give you full charitable status

 

[Blacky50]

There is no mention of a minimum turnover on the government website so I’m not sure that applies.

Also it does have full charitable status and has to report to the charities conmission in the normal way.

The benefit for smaller associations is the limited liability for trustees. I’d prefer that rather than have my house on the line, however remote the likelihood of there being a liability. So there isn’t any benefit for members but potentially a big one for any trustee, and bring trustees into line with company directors, who also have limited liability.

There are other benefits, like owning property and employing staff, and these are relevant to the bigger charities like the BBKA.

If anyone has been through the process of changing it would be interesting to find out how it went.

Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There is no mention of a minimum turnover on the government website so I’m not sure that applies.

Unless they've changed it since it first came out three four years ago. I have the paperwork here from when we were investigating a CIO for our old chapel

 

[Blacky50]

Looks like it has changed, and CIOs could have a lower income.

From smallcharities.org.uk

If your annual income is likely to be less than £5,000 you are not required or able to register with the Charity Commission unless you would like to become a CIO. Once your income exceeds £5,000 as an unincorporated structure, provided that your organisation / project is charitable, you are obliged to register with the Charity Commission.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Down to under £5,000 a lot better.
will have to dig out all the paperwork again then!

 

[peterbees]

There is no mention of a minimum turnover on the government website so I’m not sure that applies.

Also it does have full charitable status and has to report to the charities conmission in the normal way.

The benefit for smaller associations is the limited liability for trustees. I’d prefer that rather than have my house on the line, however remote the likelihood of there being a liability. So there isn’t any benefit for members but potentially a big one for any trustee, and bring trustees into line with company directors, who also have limited liability.

There are other benefits, like owning property and employing staff, and these are relevant to the bigger charities like the BBKA.

If anyone has been through the process of changing it would be interesting to find out how it went.

Thanks

Conwy Beekeepers' Association changed from an unincorporated body to a non-profit Company Limited by Guarantee, to reduce the liability on committee members.
Previously, we had unlimited liability if something went seriously wrong, and now it is a nominal £1.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Conwy Beekeepers' Association changed from an unincorporated body to a non-profit Company Limited by Guarantee, to reduce the liability on committee members.
Previously, we had unlimited liability if something went seriously wrong, and now it is a nominal £1.

The big benefit of a CIO over a company limited by guarantee is that a CIO hasn't got to submit annual accounts to Companies House with all the pitfalls and penalties that it entails if there are any hiccups.

 

[peterbees]

The big benefit of a CIO over a company limited by guarantee is that a CIO hasn't got to submit annual accounts to Companies House with all the pitfalls and penalties that it entails if there are any hiccups.

See https://tinyurl.com/ycm7p9uu for a definitive answer.
Either way, CIO or CLG, there is limited liability when things go seriously wrong. That is why we changed from being an unincorporated body.
Suppose someone gets badly stung at an apiary meeting, or just tidying up the apiary. The BKA can be in big trouble. It can happen.
We assessed the risks and likely consequences, and decided the additional expense and work involved was well worth it.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

See https://tinyurl.com/ycm7p9uu for a definitive answer.
Either way, CIO or CLG, there is limited liability when things go seriously wrong. That is why we changed from being an unincorporated body.
Suppose someone gets badly stung at an apiary meeting, or just tidying up the apiary. The BKA can be in big trouble. It can happen.
We assessed the risks and likely consequences, and decided the additional expense and work involved was well worth it.

In Conwy Beekeepers Association still a charity under this arrangement or do you give that up when you're a CLG. If you are still a charity, don't you have the worst of both worlds - annual reporting to both the Charity Commissioners and Companies House?

I know there are serious repercussions if you miss the reporting dates to CH.

CVB

 

[peterbees]

In Conwy Beekeepers Association still a charity under this arrangement or do you give that up when you're a CLG. If you are still a charity, don't you have the worst of both worlds - annual reporting to both the Charity Commissioners and Companies House?

I know there are serious repercussions if you miss the reporting dates to CH.

CVB

Conwy Beekeepers has never been a charity. Our treasurer works with our accountants to make sure we meet the Companies House dates.

 

[simoncav]

A number of associations have already moved to CIO status. Manchester BKA comes to mind immediately as an early adopter. The BBKA wants to move to this status primarily so that we can enter into commercial agreements and employ staff etc. We have gone through a recent procurement with several legal groups to get legal advice and assuming the proposition passes at the ADM in January, I'll make sure that we document the process so that Associations who want to can go down the same path if they so desire.