CBPV?

[Jon.21]

Hi. Need a bit of help. Got 5 hives in my garden and this one, for the past week has had bees on the ground shaking. Some are shiny black. Noticeably larger pile of dead bees as well in front of this hive compared to other. Is it CBPV?
Got another week before i go in to inspect as 2 weeks ago left a capped queen cell as they were queenless.
What should do I do when inspect in a weeks time ? Advice seems to be to shake out a distance a way. They’ve got plenty of room already which has been another a suggestion I read.

 

[Wilco]

Hi. Need a bit of help. Got 5 hives in my garden and this one, for the past week has had bees on the ground shaking. Some are shiny black. Noticeably larger pile of dead bees as well in front of this hive compared to other. Is it CBPV?
Got another week before i go in to inspect as 2 weeks ago left a capped queen cell as they were queenless.
What should do I do when inspect in a weeks time ? Advice seems to be to shake out a distance a way. They’ve got plenty of room already which has been another a suggestion I read.

Do not shake out. Just remove the floor. JBM started an excellent post on here about treating CBPV a year or two ago.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Advice seems to be to shake out a distance a way.

Agree with Wil. DO NOT shake out. Rubbish advice.
JBM’s thread is here https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/a-way-to-combat-cbpv.51048/

 

[user 819]

I had two last year one perished /dwindled the other pulled thru because it was a very strong colony.
Removed floor raised BB and put on a bottom cone entrance .
Colony has turned grunmpy this year and have had a few followers now pestering so they are going to be united with better QR colony late autumn.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Advice seems to be to shake out a distance a way

that's very poor advice - whoever gave it.
is the hive on a stand? a little way from the ground. If so, remove the floor and put the brood box on an empty shallow, read this:
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/a-way-to-combat-cbpv.51048/
(Sorry, just seen Dani has already replied - not firing on all cylinders today.)

 

[Jon.21]

Thanks all. Yes it’s on a stand. Have just gone out and removed the floor and replaced with an empty brood box and then put original brood on top. Waited 10mins and could see the bees falling down to the ground every now and again.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

is the hive on grass or concrete? if on a hard standing, brush away the dead bees each day and dispose of them out of the way (compost heap will do)

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Agree with Wil. DO NOT shake out. Rubbish advice.
JBM’s thread is here https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/a-way-to-combat-cbpv.51048/

Sorry but I think that's a bit harsh. It's a few years ago now but CBPV was relatively unknown. It was probably around but all too often spray poisoning was blamed for the symptoms and effects.
One of the Barkston Ash members had a hive suffering from it and I spent some time trying to find the reason, eventually finding the Beefarmers had advice which was the shake out method. In the event our member had, the Bee Inspector was called and issued exactly the same advice. The colony did survive but took a long time to recover.
Now CBPV is better recognized and it's been studied, better control methods ie removal of brood floor is the currently recognized solution. No need to describe early attempts as rubbish. Rant over.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry but I think that's a bit harsh. It's a few years ago now but CBPV was relatively unknown. It was probably around but all too often spray poisoning was blamed for the symptoms and effects.
One of the Barkston Ash members had a hive suffering from it and I spent some time trying to find the reason, eventually finding the Beefarmers had advice which was the shake out method. In the event our member had, the Bee Inspector was called and issued exactly the same advice. The colony did survive but took a long time to recover.
Now CBPV is better recognized and it's been studied, better control methods ie removal of brood floor is the currently recognized solution. No need to describe early attempts as rubbish. Rant over.

I wasn’t saying early attempts were rubbish. That advice given now is though

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

unfortunately the obsession of the usual crowd who think shook swarm can cure anything (including haemorrhoids and cancer) means this kind of 'advice' is still bandied around - even by some bee inspectors. When it was given to bee farmers (and in an even more extreme 'vertical shook swarm' where they were told to throw all the bees high in the air) it was quickly decided that the advice was, indeed, rubbish. To be honest, the only way that the message can be hammered in, is to still hammer home that the advice was, and still is rubbish

 

[Garry R]

I had a couple of colonies with CBPV a couple of years ago but fortunately not since. It was before the "remove the floor" advice which seems sensible. I allowed the dead and dying bees to fall towards the ground at the front of the entrance. I had laid triple sheets of newspaper on the ground to catch the bees and daily wrapped the newspaper up and took it home and burnt the lot in the woodburner . The newspaper was replaced every time . The colonies survived.

 

[user 819]

The open floor is ok as long as one doesn't have a wasp or other preditior issue, the funnel floor that Neil posted and the one I used worked very well . It concentrated the dead bees into a neater pile to collect up and also made the bees a little less vulnerable to all and sundry entering, albeit there was still a 2" sq entrance at the bottom.

It is trial and error developing a working formula but agree the shook swarm advice is only going to weaken a colony detrimentally that will or become even more very weakened.
Even those who recommend it for varroa control are many years behind in their thinking, shook swarm has no part at all in my beekeeping thinking, though it is again always on the LBKA agenda which is taught annually.

 

[Wilco]

Sorry but I think that's a bit harsh. It's a few years ago now but CBPV was relatively unknown. It was probably around but all too often spray poisoning was blamed for the symptoms and effects.
One of the Barkston Ash members had a hive suffering from it and I spent some time trying to find the reason, eventually finding the Beefarmers had advice which was the shake out method. In the event our member had, the Bee Inspector was called and issued exactly the same advice. The colony did survive but took a long time to recover.
Now CBPV is better recognized and it's been studied, better control methods ie removal of brood floor is the currently recognized solution. No need to describe early attempts as rubbish. Rant over.

It is rubbish though. Doesn't matter how well meaning it was, it was ineffective then and is ineffective now plus causes stress to the colony. It is completely fair to call it rubbish even if it was the best option at the time.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I had a couple of colonies with CBPV a couple of years ago but fortunately not since. It was before the "remove the floor" advice which seems sensible. I allowed the dead and dying bees to fall towards the ground at the front of the entrance. I had laid triple sheets of newspaper on the ground to catch the bees and daily wrapped the newspaper up and took it home and burnt the lot in the woodburner . The newspaper was replaced every time . The colonies survived.

A prolific Queen can lay the colony out of trouble

 

[user 819]

Though little is known as to how or why the cause, though it appears stress may be a factor.
Trial and error and forums like this where matters are discussed and practiced are a way forward to help in providing ways of dealing with CBPV, we are the guinea pigs.

 

[user 819]

A prolific Queen can lay the colony out of trouble

She can but it still takes time but within six to eight weeks one should see brood and numbers increase.
My colony last year wa son approx. seventeen/eighteen wall to wall frames of brood , it lost 50% of the brood and bees id not a bit more. Die off continued for about five weeks before the corner was turned , eventually her laying and bee cover increased to fourteen frames of brood and they built up strong agin for Autum and winter.

If one has a mediocre colony on seven - nine frame so f brood then they may take a long time if at all to recover.

 

[user 819]

There is one thing that can be said about this forum we as a group are inovators who move with the times , not afraid to try new ways practices.

 

[Erichalfbee]

There is one thing that can be said about this forum we as a group are inovators who move with the times , not afraid to try new ways practices.

I’ll second that. I’ve been vaping my bees as the sole method of varroa control for 15 years on the back of some thoughts from others on here.
It doesn’t always work though. I used MAQS as soon as it was available and killed a good proportion of my queens.

 

[Newbeeneil]

The open floor is ok as long as one doesn't have a wasp or other preditior issue, the funnel floor that Neil posted and the one I used worked very well . It concentrated the dead bees into a neater pile to collect up and also made the bees a little less vulnerable to all and sundry entering, albeit there was still a 2" sq entrance at the bottom.

My colony with CBPV has rallied so well with the funnel floor that I now have a colony with a funnel shaped nest below the brood box.
Sorting that one is going to be interesting!