can you have too much insulation ?

[citrus]

heard talk on hear that the paynes poly hives had a thin roof so over this winter I stuck on some kingspan just for fun

(see image)


someone else on here said ... you need good insulation in the summer too

so thinking of leaving the silverfoil on top all year round ...

..is it overkill ?

what say you oh wise ones ?

 

[Murox]

Have a think about why humans insulate their homes.
Read and think about this http://www.naturalbeekeeping.com.au/Delon 'stable-climate' hive.pdf

 

[madasafish]

I leave insulation on year round...
In sinter, minimises bees' food usage and stress.
In summer helps keep hives cool.. redcecs bees fanning and food usage..

If you have ever sat in an uninsulated small wooden shed with doors closed at the height of summer you would discover what a wooden hive could be like....

 

[blackcloud]

My dead colony had the luxury of a twin foiled 150mm chunk of kingspan above them.
But the previous guy had carved a four inch ventilation hole in the middle and they were clumped directly below this .
What was the point!!!!

 

[Swarm]

Consider the conditions found in the various locations that honey bees colonised through migration, they did a fairly good job IMO and without molly coddling. I would not consider the weather to be very extreme in your area so do they 'need' protecting. The extra insulation overhead helps prevent moisture above the colony, didn't paynes change their roof design? Are they thicker now?

 

[Beefriendly]

Acid test for roof insulation is does snow melt.
I've had both types of Paynes roofs and no snow ever melted....well not until the weather warmed up.
No, they aren't thicker, just more overhang on the later roofs making a better fit and less likely to blow off.
Me thinks tis beekeepers who "think" more depth of insulation = better.

 

[BernardBlack]

I’ve removed my insulation just the other day.

I assumed the bees only need it in winter.

 

[Swarm]

Acid test for roof insulation is does snow melt.
I've had both types of Paynes roofs and no snow ever melted....well not until the weather warmed up.
No, they aren't thicker, just more overhang on the later roofs making a better fit and less likely to blow off.
Me thinks tis beekeepers who "think" more depth of insulation = better.

I certainly found condensation on the crown board in a paynes with old roof design, a bit more insulation sorted it.

 

[Beefriendly]

I certainly found condensation on the crown board in a paynes with old roof design, a bit more insulation sorted it.

The old and new roofs are the same thickness...so me thinks you disagree on principal.
Anyone else smell fart?

 

[Hivemaker.]

My dead colony had the luxury of a twin foiled 150mm chunk of kingspan above them.
But the previous guy had carved a four inch ventilation hole in the middle and they were clumped directly below this .
What was the point!!!!

There was no point whatsoever in putting insulation over a dead colony.

 

[Swarm]

The old and new roofs are the same thickness...so me thinks you disagree on principal.
Anyone else smell fart?

Oh dear me, lol. Jumping to conclusions because I asked about the new roof? I had condensation on the crown board. I added insulation under the roof, condensation gone.
Stop trying so hard to be smart.
And it would be principle

 

[citrus]

I certainly found condensation on the crown board in a paynes with old roof design, a bit more insulation sorted it.

Yeah I have noticed that there is no condensation on the clear crownboard this year since the extra kingspan so definitely see some merit in it

.... but that also the bees are more thirsty now and a bit more obvious at the water holes (or is it I just have more bees now)

 

[Murox]

So what is the inherent problem with a little condensation on a clear crown board during winter ??

 

[citrus]

So what is the inherent problem with a little condensation on a clear crown board during winter ??

Well that document you gave me yesterday says insulation is good

it also says on page 3

" A very well
insulated crown board prevents condensation at the top.
"



Tbh i ran 2017 with standard paynes lids ... and seemed ok ... so its no big drama

I found some kingspan so cut it to size and so trying this for now

that said I am a terribly indecisive Libran

 

[pargyle]

heard talk on hear that the paynes poly hives had a thin roof so over this winter I stuck on some kingspan just for fun

(see image)


someone else on here said ... you need good insulation in the summer too

so thinking of leaving the silverfoil on top all year round ...

..is it overkill ?

what say you oh wise ones ?

Have a read of this:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=41223

Post #6

The best way to insulate a Paynes Poly is to put a super (empty) on top of the crown board and put at least 50mm of Kingspan/Celotex cut to the size of the inside of the super inside it. More than 50mm if you wish .. you can never have too much insulation.

You will notice, even in winter, that the crownboard under the insulation is warm .. just think of all that energy the bees use to keep their home at the temperature they want and how it would be wasted without insulation.

Summer or winter - I always have a super with insulation in it on all my hives.

Costs nothing ... works for me - nothing to hate.

 

[Beefriendly]

So what is the inherent problem with a little condensation on a clear crown board during winter ??

Very little.
Generally you find it's the smaller colonies where you get a little condensation on the Paynes clear crown boards, often towards the edges of the loose cluster. I rarely see any with my larger colonies.

If snow doesn't melt on the roofs than you have adequate insulation as you are not losing any significant heat.
Any extra insulation added to poly hives is just window dressing IMO,.

 

[pargyle]

Might want to get someone to do some infrared photos of your hives then ...

You'll be surprised at how much heat loss shows around the edge of the standard roof on Paynes Polys .. much reduced when you have a super with insulation in it.

I would accept that it's less of an issue in the summer but very noticeable in winter.

 

[Beefriendly]

Might want to get someone to do some infrared photos of your hives then ...

Why? Snow don't melt on them....IR temp reader shows consistent temps on outside.
The major heat loss I found a few years ago was through open mesh floors...which I now close up for winter.

Several years ago we used to prop open crown boards with matchsticks as this was the "accepted" practice. Despite living all winter in a through draft of icy air most colonies still survived....
I think we have become obsessed with insulation to the point where we use an excess of the stuff for no (or very little) added benefit to the bees.

 

[pargyle]

These images were taken some years ago by MikeA - formerly of this forum and also a member of my BKA.

Interesting to see just how much heat is lost and where it comes from. If you are interested ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Vj-i8kSII

 

[Eyeman]

Why? Snow don't melt on them....IR temp reader shows consistent temps on outside.
The major heat loss I found a few years ago was through open mesh floors...which I now close up for winter.

Several years ago we used to prop open crown boards with matchsticks as this was the "accepted" practice. Despite living all winter in a through draft of icy air most colonies still survived....
I think we have become obsessed with insulation to the point where we use an excess of the stuff for no (or very little) added benefit to the bees.

Is this in a poly hive? I suspect this isn't the case with wooden hives?