Can wintering turn a colony aggressive?

[Rosti]

Colony relocated from back garden to out apiary Feb 10
Was very docile but productive in 2009, not re-queened that season.
2 minor inspections so far in 2010 simply to establish stores levels, no smoke used, low aggression observed, no following (as last year).
1st major inspection (plus intention of marking Queen), smoked and waited a few minutes (as usual).
Good store levels, suprisingly good pollen stores, brood on 3/4 frames.
They went ballistic, then followed some 500m to the car!
Easily 150+ stings on suit, 8 or so got through.

What can have turned good girls into bad girls, thoughts appreciated.

 

[Poly Hive]

Have you got a queen is my immediate thought?

PH

 

[Rosti]

Yep, saw her during this inspection PH, but then lost sight of her again so didn't get a chance to mark her as originally planned. Appearance exactly as I remember her from last year (very distinctive bronze colour -partly why I didn't bother to mark last year). Decided to mark this year since I want to split.

 

[gavin]

Or do you have the same queen? Supercedure could have given you a new queen.

Ahh .... you've just answered my question. Still could be a daughter though, especially as she wasn't marked.

G.

 

[Rosti]

Yep, not considered that, judging by brood levels pretty prolific for a superseedure queen?

I look foward to peoples thoughts since I am now off to the gadget show with my son to buy things we didn't even know we needed. Top of the list a fully programmable queen with an adjustable aggression dial on the thorax.

 

[VEG]

Did you have aftershave or perfume on?
Did you refuel your car on the way there?

I went to see my bees after having used aftershave and they went ballistic they also did the same when I filled the car with petrol on the way.

 

[BKF Admin]

Is the forage not as good?

 

[MuswellMetro]

Are they under attack from Robber bees?.. mine are more agreesive when wasps are going for them, i always thought is may be an alarm hormone casued them to be at your face but never smelt "bananas"

 

[Poly Hive]

why would brood be less for a sup Q?

I would have expected the same or more as she is new and should be cooking with gas.

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

The queen mates with several drones on mating flights and stores the sperm separately so as she ages and a different sperm from a different drone is used the bees temperament and even colour can result. Perhaps a thought but have the bees changed colour.

 

[Rosti]

Just for closure really, thanks for the comments and observations. I have just inspected and I am none the wiser! Bees back to normal selves, not quite placid but they have always been more of a 'Zippy' than a 'George' (for those of a certain age - the rest of you look up 'Rainbow').

I can't explain why they turned nasty and then back again?

Actions:
Washed suit as a precaution
Wore baseball cap to avoid getting multiple stings on the forehead again (that bl**dy hurt)!
Light / moderate smoking
Found queen and marked her this time

General inspection:
Brood - Eggs + Larvae (3 frames) + capped (3/4 frames)
10 frames of bees + about 7 of brood
Wintered super - 3 frames of brood (from before I replaced the QE) with bees on 5 super frames
Plenty of stores in the super if they need it plus about a frame in the brood
No signs of dead bees around entrance
No evidence of robbing at time of inspection

 

[Tom Bick]

Thats good Rosty all back to normal just put it down to they had a bad day and we all have grumpy days.

 

[Polyanwood]

Hello Rosti,

I bought some bees that were nasty from a bloke who knew I was a beginner and said they were nice. I went back to he bloke I bought them off to complain. He said they were hungry and I should feed them. I thought he was making it up, but gave them some syrup until the flow improved and they weren't bad tempered after that.

Also the Italians I have are right moody. If it is calm and sunny they are quiet and you don't need a veil. If there is as cloud in the sky or a breeze they are defensive.

I hope your bees stay nice tempered.

Karin

 

[AMAE]

The queen mates with several drones on mating flights and stores the sperm separately so as she ages and a different sperm from a different drone is used the bees temperament and even colour can result. Perhaps a thought but have the bees changed colour.


Aaha...that's what I thought...last year new nuc. of yellowish bees..this year they are black. Thanks for the confirmation Tom...

AMAE

 

[victor meldrew]

The queen mates with several drones on mating flights and stores the sperm separately so as she ages and a different sperm from a different drone is used the bees temperament and even colour can result. Perhaps a thought but have the bees changed colour.

I find this hard to believe ?
The spermathica is the storage organ, it isn't compartmental , nutrients are secreted from it's lining to sustain the sperm, A queen can last up to 5 years ,meaning that the last batch of sperm to be used would be 5 years old ? .
Surely this would nullify the sound reasons for promiscuity amongst queens(to ensure a good spread of the gene pool) as the entire sperm donation from one drone would be well past their best ?
Mixture of sperm = maximum gene spread?.
I have colonies which display workers of varying colour and temperament all at the same time ,leading me to believe that that sperm mixes .
In the case of artificial insemination the sperm is mixed in the pippet before insemination I believe .

John Wilkinson

 

[Zaphod]

Moved 2 hives last year, one of which became homicidal long distance followers for a few weeks. I thought it was a combination of the move plus feeding.

An old beekeeper I know blamed both the move and the syrup, which he said makes them more territorial.

Thankfully they've quietened down this year.

Z

 

[Tom Bick]

I find this hard to believe ?
The spermathica is the storage organ, it isn't compartmental , nutrients are secreted from it's lining to sustain the sperm, A queen can last up to 5 years ,meaning that the last batch of sperm to be used would be 5 years old ? .
Surely this would nullify the sound reasons for promiscuity amongst queens(to ensure a good spread of the gene pool) as the entire sperm donation from one drone would be well past their best ?
Mixture of sperm = maximum gene spread?.
I have colonies which display workers of varying colour and temperament all at the same time ,leading me to believe that that sperm mixes .
In the case of artificial insemination the sperm is mixed in the pippet before insemination I believe .

John Wilkinson

Hi John

This throws my post on its head I have to admit I have no scientific evidence to prove it right and my experience less than most but I did get the information from Twickenham Beekeepers Associating during a course and have heard it since and never had it corrected during similar conversations so its either I am way off the mark and people think bless let him think what he wants to or are we in an area where we dont really know

 

[victor meldrew]

Hi John

This throws my post on its head I have to admit I have no scientific evidence to prove it right and my experience less than most but I did get the information from Twickenham Beekeepers Associating during a course and have heard it since and never had it corrected during similar conversations so its either I am way off the mark and people think bless let him think what he wants to or are we in an area where we dont really know

Tom, I am no expert but try to apply logic .
Take the theory that workers police the egg laying tendencies of their half sisters. Again to have half sisters of equal age ,to me means they are the result of mixed semen?

John Wilkinson

 

[Hivemaker.]

Think it would be a bit of a logistics problem keeping up to seven million sperm separate,from say 15 drones, all within the spermatheca.

 

[victor meldrew]

Hi Pete,
unless, as has been postulated, that the sperm from different drones form peer groups, imagine warfare within her majes' spermathica !!

John