Can drone laying workers mate?

[RosieMc]

Can drone laying workers mate?

Its too long a complicated story, basically I now appear to have THREE queenless hives after splitting a nuc into three in April. The original marked Q has dissappeared. I have waited and waited, and no signs of Q+. I have put in an extra frame of eggs, lavea, brood and Q cups in each hive 1st week of May and all they did was pull the Q cups down.

Put in a test frame on 25 May - no evidence of any Q cups being built by 28 May. What I have got is very very aggressive bees and some strange looking drones which have been described by a mentor as drones from a laying worker. These look like smaller drones with eyes that are larger than a worker, and smaller than a drone.

I am pretty sure I have a serious case of drone laying workers even though on last inspection there was no capped brood etc.

My worry is, if I re queen could one of these drone-workers mate and make the situation worse?

What a great forum this is - thanks to all who participate

 

[Winker]

Can drone laying workers mate?

Its too long a complicated story, basically I now appear to have THREE queenless hives after splitting a nuc into three in April. The original marked Q has dissappeared. I have waited and waited, and no signs of Q+. I have put in an extra frame of eggs, lavea, brood and Q cups in each hive 1st week of May and all they did was pull the Q cups down.

Put in a test frame on 25 May - no evidence of any Q cups being built by 28 May. What I have got is very very aggressive bees and some strange looking drones which have been described by a mentor as drones from a laying worker. These look like smaller drones with eyes that are larger than a worker, and smaller than a drone.

I am pretty sure I have a serious case of drone laying workers even though on last inspection there was no capped brood etc.

My worry is, if I re queen could one of these drone-workers mate and make the situation worse?

What a great forum this is - thanks to all who participate

I would buy in better genetics. New queen from a good source

 

[VEG]

If you have laying workers you will have to sort that out before trying to introduce a bought in queen. If you have a laying worker the bees think they have a queen all ready and would probably kill the new one.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Your laying workers if you have them do not need to mate to produce drones as all drones are from unfertilized eggs and have DNA only from the egg layer

if you requeen a drone laying hive then the requeening normally fails unless you get rid of the drone layers

you need to take all the frames out and shake all the bees off the frames some distance away and the dronelayers don't go back to the hive ( you hope)

then you can requeen as normal

 

[RosieMc]

Can the drones from a drone laying worker mate?

I have tried to edit my thread, but can't find the edit button. I actually meant can the drones from a laying worker mate?

ps went to bed, then had to get back up and go on line to try to re-do before anyone read it! Am I getting stressed out???

 

[oliver90owner]

after splitting a nuc into three in April

Not the best way to go!

If no queen cells, with a test frame, there is likely a queen of some description, but not necessarily.

Drones need over three weeks from egg to drone so actual dates would help to work out a timeline for your troubles. Quoting a month is not adequate info.

Drone and worker are not synonymous - workers don't mate and drones don't work!

RAB

 

[Chris B]

What does your mentor say to do?
An accurate diagnosis is important here. You won't get a new queen introduced into a laying worker colony.
But I'm thinking your 3 splits from a nuc don't sound viable to me. How could they have enough bees, especially without brood for over a month.
(Oh and workers don't mate but that's no help).
If they were my bees I'd probably shake all the bees in front of your one good colony and at least get something out of them before they dwindle to nothing.

 

[RosieMc]

Thanks Mus, That was going to be my next question, what to do? now will have to wait for a day when there are no thunderstorms or gails - fat chance. Its like winter up here in Lancashire

 

[RosieMc]

Thanks, Why split? They were swarming, great clouds of them - twice! Hence the need to split. Hubby is now terrified of using his lawn mower within 30 feet of them. I have no idea why after waiting 4 to 5 weeks I still have bees over 6 frames in each hive.

I will have to try out the shake and run method of getting rid of the drone layers.

 

[Chris B]

I think we know where your marked queen went.
Your "nuc" was clearly more populous than most.
Personally I now doubt you have laying workers. Here's the test - is there any laying at all?

 

[MuswellMetro]

I have tried to edit my thread, but can't find the edit button. I actually meant can the drones from a laying worker mate?

well got me stumped there, they would have normal drone DNA so i suspect yes, but i will expect to be told otherwise

drones that mate with their queens daughter queen result in the new queen laying fertilized drone eggs that produce diploid drones but they are much larger and rarely survive as are kill as larva by the nurse bees

 

[huntsman666]

Best way to deal with laying workers is to give that colony a frame with eggs every week for three weeks and let them rear a new queen.

This of course assumes you can get such frames from elsewhere. One of the reasons to have more than one viable colony in your own apiary.

 

[Skyhook]

I believe the straight answer is no, dwarf drones don't mate as they're just not strong enough to catch the queen. Remember she's flying fast in order to select for fast strong bees

 

[polomadh]

Hi RosieMC, you are right, its like winter here in Rossendale too! What you have described is EXACTLY what I have, with the exception that I have seen a virgin queen that isnt laying yet, Im guessing its not been suitable weather for some time now. Its very frustrating trying to choose between inspecting or leaving them to it. The weather forecast is supposed to give us good weather by the weekend, so Ive got a bait hive out and hope to catch something. If not and the virgin doesnt get going, its back to square one, with a bag full of experience for next year :-(

 

[RosieMc]

I think we know where your marked queen went.
Your "nuc" was clearly more populous than most.
Personally I now doubt you have laying workers. Here's the test - is there any laying at all?

RosieMc reply - no, nothing appears to be laying in any of the three problem hives. I will check the test frames in each of the hives when the weather improves as I do not want to chill the brood.

Having already taken three frames of brood from my one remaining Q+ hive on 25th May I am reluctant to remove any more. I will try again if I can get some from somewhere. Thanks

 

[oliver90owner]

You are in the mire a little. But remember those test frames will be an investment (apart from any poor queen cells drawn). You will have those bees should you need to unite later. You only need a frame with a few eggs each time, so swapping around, replacing a frame with drawn comb in the brood nest will achieve that objective in a short period.

Still, it's not time to panic yet (see Enrico's post on that one). This, happening in september might be a little more expensive/difficult to get out of!

RAB

 

[Tom Bick]

I believe the straight answer is no, dwarf drones don't mate as they're just not strong enough to catch the queen. Remember she's flying fast in order to select for fast strong bees

Can Drone Laying Workers Mate (we are assuming the drones on this)

I have been looking on the internet as I thought that they were infertile bit it seems I was wrong and they are sexually viable.

So me thinks skyhook has it right apart from if one of them gets lucky.

I came across this paper it covers the subject and worth a read

http://www.beehacker.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Egg_laying_worker_bees.pdf

 

[Poly Hive]

Are there any eggs in evidence? If there are, are they on the cell floor or on the walls?

PH

 

[RosieMc]

Drone laying workers

Can Drone Laying Workers Mate (we are assuming the drones on this)

I have been looking on the internet as I thought that they were infertile bit it seems I was wrong and they are sexually viable.

So me thinks skyhook has it right apart from if one of them gets lucky.

I came across this paper it covers the subject and worth a read

http://www.beehacker.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Egg_laying_worker_bees.pdf

Thank you so much Tom Bick - excellent article and answers alot of questions. I hope you do not mind, but I will put a new thread on this as it is so good - with thanks to yourself of course.

 

[Tom Bick]

No problem Rosie the thing is no matter what the question is we all at times learn something from it. You can say the forum at its best when that happens.