camouflage builders screening - any advice or recommended options ?

[Ian123]

You said "They start a fraction later because poly insulates both ways." what exactly did that mean?

How do you or bees determine the difference, when the temperature on the inside face of hives is the result of the suns warming effects on a un-insulated wall as opposed to their own heat on an insulated wall?
similarly an un-insulated divider as opposed to their own heat on a highly insulated external wall?

How exactly does lack of shade directly correlate the inside of hive being dry and warm. do you have results which show how it varies with insulation level?

I dont recollect writing anything about wall thickness in this thread or
recollect writing anything about shade in this thread perhaps you can point out where?


Since you are suggesting large expansive experiments , perhaps you can share yours? have you published the results? or perhaps you have published a treatise on the theoretical biology, if so please give me the references? I would love to read them.


I spoke with Murray at length about polys vs wood over 8years ago...I quote Murray in some of my lectures and papers
I do recollect speaking about the honey bee preference for thick walls with Tom Seeley in 2012. He later
talked about the possibility of their preference in later lectures but admitted no-one has done that work to date, but it was a possibility given honey bees have nest measurement behaviours more complex than wall thickness measurement.
If you want read about some of my work go buy Tom's latest book.

Hi I’ll answer in order if I may...1..As I said above I find hives in a nice sunny site will benefit from the suns warmth and often respond quicker/start brood earlier than counter parts in shade or poly. Personally from that I can assume there’s a benefit to the suns heat. Obviously poly walls will restrict that heat transfer/benefit. Having had polys some time I’m happy that they will later out preform those in wooden hives that’s not the issue. So in all your research do you have any evidence that those in more thermally efficient accommodations start brood rearing later. With knowledge! they’ll out preform others in less thermally efficient accommodation.?Or is it another case of it just is....2..Do I or the bees need to know what the difference or source of the warmth is, however they do respond to it ...3 As to shade and how it corresponds to a drier hive. I find hives in shady sites often show more damp, they obviously don’t benefit from additional warmth. Bees are more active for longer in the winter, walk into a frost trap/shade with hives in nothing flying the same site with hives around the corner in sun will have them flying....4.... You certainly didn’t say anything about wall thickness here but I did quite clearly say “on another subject” I just wondered if it was another case of it just is, or was there any research this was based on? ..5. I wouldn’t suggest that 50 of each as a large scale experiment there’s guys out there putting up dozens for fun! In many other fields that would be regarded as a very small sample. Did you try anything even on a small scale? Have I done any experiments. Quite simple no! But then I’m not writing papers based on assumptions. I have however over a good few years put up many bait hives and probably far more than the numbers you regard as large scale. I’ve never found the need to make the accommodations thermally efficient to attract swarms, and it appears none others have unless you can point them out. Did you say anything about shade, no you didn’t but you did say hives in sun are not efficient. Given the choice and my experience over the years, I’d pick a sunny spot every time. Unfortunately you won’t find any papers written by myselfthe time would be nice. If I did however and say I wanted to prove bees had a hive wall thickness preference, and my work focused on the dynamics within that nest. I would start my treatise with a credit/reference to other works proving the former. Not based on an assumption that in many beekeepers experience is incorrect. Isn’t that how those educated types do it?....5 I’m glad you spoke with Murray you’d be daft not to in regard to poly and his experiences, however I’ll bet my last pound he didn’t suggest, bees being aware! there in a thermally effective hive marginally start brood later. I’m sure if that is the case you would have mentioned it already.? Ian

 

[Ian123]

I did find this from Murray though. .................................... “Sample size? You want sample size? How about in excess of 1000 hives of both poly and wood? Over 15 seasons?

Bare facts.

Winter losses in poly under half of those in wood.
Spring build up starts a little earlier in wood. (More responsive to change of season)
Poly catches up and goes past wood very quickly once they get going (need less bees to keep the brood warm).
Poly breed later into autumn. (Precise converse of the spring) Thus more right age winter bees.
Increase in poly easier and more sustainable.”........................................So Murray thinks wooden hives are more responsive to the season as well or am looking something.

 

[derekm]

you havent answered the questions, and you obviously dont know that there is no difference between energy from the sun or energy from a bee and that the theory of heat transfer isn't "assumptions". You are are the one assuming that bees flying while there is frost is an advantage.
I got the info about insulated nest, brood rearing later but faster from and producing more honey and more casts from ITLD years ago and a researcher in the 70's, who actually bothered to publish . So Mr Troll get back under your bridge. I've got some research to write up.

 

[Ian123]

you havent answered the questions, and you obviously dont know that there is no difference between energy from the sun or energy from a bee and that the theory of heat transfer isn't "assumptions". You are are the one assuming that bees flying while there is frost is an advantage.
I got the info about insulated nest, brood rearing later but faster from and producing more honey and more casts from ITLD years ago and a researcher in the 70's, who actually bothered to publish . So Mr Troll get back under your bridge. I've got some research to write up.

Well I suppose that went down wellI’ll return to my bridge. Let’s hope what ever research you are writing up is based on a theory with at least some evidence behind it? rather than it just is assumptions. And yes I am assuming! bees flying is an advantage but I’m not writing papers and I’m basing it on experience of more than 6 hives! I also am assuming it’s common to get such research/papers reviewed let’s hope your reviewers have a tough hide. As to the difference between energy from the sun and a bee...I would suggest the suns a little hotter, I may be wrong of course I didn’t even get started and your May swarming deadline......Ian

 

[derekm]

Well I suppose that went down wellI’ll return to my bridge. Let’s hope what ever research you are writing up is based on a theory with at least some evidence behind it? rather than it just is assumptions. Ian

You are the one with all the assumptions and observer bias and have the gall to project it on to others
e.g. you assume starting brood earlier is an advantage, with no back up
e.g. you assume thermal efficiency is not related to insulation and then project it as a separate an unproven and therefore unworthy thing
you assume that the effect is the direct cause. e.g. they can start later as result of thermal efficiency, which you imply that means bees "directly sense thermal efficiency" Then its claim its obviously impossible then project it as insult
You project anthropomorphisms on to others. as a weapon
You change the subject so that you can project falsehoods on to others
In short You are a troll who take takes delight in denigrating others via rhetorical devices because of the perverse pleasure it gives you.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Now now gentlemen @derekm @Ian123 cool it please