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artibaton 

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i have built myself a langstroth recently, and am considering building another with a couple of modifications i would be grateful for any comments or suggestions.

looking at national i noted the two double walls and want to incorporate that into the build, but then i thought.....if insulation is a bee issue why not put some of the soundproofing and heat trapping underlay they use beneath laminate floors between 2 sheets of 10mm wbp

also im wondering if a small difference in the exterior dimensions of each box on a hive would give you an advantage when seperating the elements of the hive. creating a lip to put your hive tool into, or maybe a little arras on each edge

any ideas or suggestions welcome
 

Lincsbee 

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if you are looking at double walled nationals then they are probably quite old, the modified national is a single walled hive. the biggest problem with double walling is the weight, perhaps if that isn't an issue for you.

regards
 

artibaton 

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no, weight no issue as yet:)


it is only the two sides of my national that are double walled but if i halve the ply width around the insulating material im sure they will be marginally lighter

ie 2x10mm ply rather than 1" of solid timber
 

Lincsbee 

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that is how i build my 14 x 12 nationals, using the inner layer of ply as the frame carrier
 

artibaton 

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thats what i figured, no need for rebate cutting then....

do u have any pics of ur hives?
 
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I have to start most of my posts about beekeeping with "I don't know what I am talking about" . . . . but . . . . . I regularly dib into my favourite bee book "Bee Keeping in Great Britain" by R O B Manley. In his chapter on winter care he says he had tried insulating the hives against the cold in winter as is done in America, but he found that:-
A) It didn't particularly reduce the food consumed
B) Damp is more of a problem in this country than cold
C) It slowed down spring build up as the walls were insulated the sun couldn't warm through and on warm spring days the bees weren't flying so well from the insulated ones as the non. . . . .

I know it's an old book but insulation keeps out the heat as well as the cold

Just a thought

Frisbee
 

tony350i 

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i only insulate under the roof.
 

Lincsbee 

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ok, i think i've managed to upload some photos,


i do not insulate between the hive walls, but have 75mm of insulation in the roof.

The pictures are of a 5 framed 14 x 12 nuc, but the principal is the same




 

Poly Hive 

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I well remember at my beginners course being told, "If you buy a buzz saw then please what ever you do do not invent another hive...."

Insulated hives give indeed a drier winter.

One of my colonies is currently, or at my last look it was, clustered against the wall.

PH
 

Finman 

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.
In Finland insulated stores are build 5 mm ply - insulation - 5 mm pl.
4 mm ply is quite soft.

Ply must be water resistat so called canoe ply. Orherwise it will become curved.

Ply as heat conductor 0,13
mineral wool 0,05
polystyrene foam 0,02

Polyuretane foam makes structure rigid.

Parket insulator 20 mm makes good insulation.

10 mm ply is awfully heavy and expencive too. No one make such stucture.

********************

Good way is to bye one, open it how its has been constructed.

.
 
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Finman 

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he had tried insulating the hives against the cold in winter as is done in America, but he found that:-

A) It didn't particularly reduce the food consumed

B) Damp is more of a problem in this country than cold

C) It slowed down spring build up as the walls were insulated the sun couldn't warm through and on warm spring days the bees weren't flying so well from the insulated ones as the non. . . .
.
That writes does not understand much about insulation. Americans use same hive structure from Florida to Alaska.

Damp and cold are not alternatives. Stupid sentence endeed!

Warm means lower relative air moisture. When the inside is warmer than weather, it dryes the inner space. You understand it at home.

Insulating speeds up spring build up.

The heat does not come from sun. It comes from bee cluster which keeps brood area + 32C. At night and during rainy days outer temp may be from 0C-10C. It is a big advantage that the box KEEPS the heat.

When I have heated hives with 15W electrict bottom cabel, hive gets advantage up till day temperature +17C. The colony may keep warm larger brood area. Radius means a lot in circle area.
 

Finman 

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ok, i think i've managed to upload some photos,
The construction in your nuc is really cold. I think that it cannot be colder any more. Small hive and bottom open. Upper insulation does not help. With that structure 30 mm upper insulation is enough.

Ply has high density and it removes heat by conducting.

BUT if wood is soaked with condensation moisture, its heat isolation value is not good. Moisture adds weight too. Moisture comes from rain and bees' respiration.

Own question is a mesh floor, how open you keep it.
 
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Lincsbee 

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hi finman, i don't overwinter any nucs and all my hives have five coats of cuprinol before they are used and are then painted annually, i have yet to lose a colony through the winter for any reason ( i shall probably regret writing that ) and as you keep pointing out there is a huge temperature range across continental america. there is aslo a big temperature difference between finland and england.

regards
 

Finman 

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pointing out there is a huge temperature range across continental america. there is aslo a big temperature difference between finland and england.

regards
If you look European forecast. Difference is not big.

You know, Florida's situation is same as North Africa.

Hah ha. As far as I have read about beekeeping, English knowledge about insulation, condensation water and heat economy is about African level. :)
 
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Lincsbee 

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hi finman,
do you rely on weather forecasts, i'm talking about actual weather. i worked for a Danish environmental control company for a number of years and spent quite a lot of time in Northern Scandanavia, i have never been so cold in my life. English winters are no longer weeks of minus temperatures, day or night. the biggest threat to our bees is that they become too active and starve.
 

Finman 

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and spent quite a lot of time in Northern Scandanavia, i have never been so cold in my life. .

Yes, -25 C is a bad weather enough.

We have here in Helsinki 0C and no snow.
I was once in London in midd Marsch. Cherries bloomed there and usually we have cherry blooming at the end of May.
 
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artibaton 

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hi finman...looking into 5mm wbp and polystyrene insulation

still no answer to the arras question tho:confused:
 

Hivemaker. 

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Christmas eve,and bee's still flying,and bringing in small ammounts of pollen.
 

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