Brood space

[BBC]

Advice please experts.

Attached is an image of the brood box through Perspex crown board.

As you can see there are several patches of comb appearing between the CB and the frames. What you may not be able to make out is that these are actively being filled with stores.

Should I stick another shallow on now to give them some additional space?

 

[Amari]

Advice please experts.

Attached is an image of the brood box through Perspex crown board.

As you can see there are several patches of comb appearing between the CB and the frames. What you may not be able to make out is that these are actively being filled with stores.

Should I stick another shallow on now to give them some additional space?View attachment 31079

I get brace comb like that on all my CBs and slice it off at every hive inspection. Altering the CBs to reduce the dead-space would involve too much work.

Have you lifted a couple of end frames out to check stores? If they're full of capped stores you no longer need the fondant . Many of my hives were store-bound ie. several frames of capped stores leaving little room for the brood nest to expand. I removed a few frames (useful for making up nucs, hive splits etc) and replaced with drawn comb or foundation. I'll put supers on when a flow starts - in a week or two because the OSR is coming into flower.

 

[ericbeaumont]

additional space

Yes.

If they're building comb and bringing in nectar (or is it just fondant?) then it must go anyhwere but in the brood area. This is the time of year when expansion is rapid and if you don't respond, swarm preps will soon be on the horizon.

How many frames of brood? What is needed is space for the queen to lay and space for bees to store nectar above, but to add both at the same time when temps. are dropping (briefly) next week may set them back. Give one or the other, depending on what you find when you inspect.

For example, if the box has five frames of brood, four of stores and two empty frames at the end you could move the empties to the edge of the brood nest.

If all frames are occupied you may have to remove a frame of stores and add an empty frame of comb or foundation at the edge of the nest. Repeat weekly as necessary; at some point you may need to add another brood box.

If so, transfer open brood to the centre of the new top box above the sealed brood in the lower box. Fill the flanks of both boxes with comb or foundation. The nest will retain heat and be able to expand sideways. Once those two boxes are roughly two thirds full of bees, add a super.

This is not a prescription but a suggestion that you must be flexible and ready to manage expansion weekly in response to the weather, to what is in flower, and to the status of the brood box.

an image of the brood box through Perspex crown board.

This tells you only so much. What did your inspection reveal?

 

[BBC]

I get brace comb like that on all my CBs and slice it off at every hive inspection. Altering the CBs to reduce the dead-space would involve too much work.

Have you lifted a couple of end frames out to check stores? If they're full of capped stores you no longer need the fondant . Many of my hives were store-bound ie. several frames of capped stores leaving little room for the brood nest to expand. I removed a few frames (useful for making up nucs, hive splits etc) and replaced with drawn comb or foundation. I'll put supers on when a flow starts - in a week or two because the OSR is coming into flower.

Good Point, thank you.
I’ll look into that option and make a decision.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That looks like the normal brace comb you get once the colony gets going, on it's own it means nothing. Not going to labour you with repeating the good advice already given in the last few posts.
Bees like to stick things down as firmly as possible - remember that in the wild, the comb they live on would be securely fixed to the ceiling!

 

[BBC]

Yes.

If they're building comb and bringing in nectar (or is it just fondant?) then it must go anyhwere but in the brood area. This is the time of year when expansion is rapid and if you don't respond, swarm preps will soon be on the horizon.

How many frames of brood? What is needed is space for the queen to lay and space for bees to store nectar above, but to add both at the same time when temps. are dropping (briefly) next week may set them back. Give one or the other, depending on what you find when you inspect.

For example, if the box has five frames of brood, four of stores and two empty frames at the end you could move the empties to the edge of the brood nest.

If all frames are occupied you may have to remove a frame of stores and add an empty frame of comb or foundation at the edge of the nest. Repeat weekly as necessary; at some point you may need to add another brood box.

If so, transfer open brood to the centre of the new top box above the sealed brood in the lower box. Fill the flanks of both boxes with comb or foundation. The nest will retain heat and be able to expand sideways. Once those two boxes are roughly two thirds full of bees, add a super.

This is not a prescription but a suggestion that you must be flexible and ready to manage expansion weekly in response to the weather, to what is in flower, and to the status of the brood box.


This tells you only so much. What did your inspection reveal?

I have been holding off on a full brood box inspection until mid April.
However, mild winter and early flowering in my area may have put them well ahead.
I should bite the bullet and do a full first inspection while the weather is above average.
I have no drawn brood frames so will have to fall back on, so will have to make up some new quickly.
Thanks for your advice.

 

[BBC]

That looks like the normal brace comb you get once the colony gets going, on it's own it means nothing. Not going to labour you with repeating the good advice already given in the last few posts.
Bees like to stick things down as firmly as possible - remember that in the wild, the comb they live on would be securely fixed to the ceiling!

Would brace comb be used as stores too?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Would brace comb be used as stores too?

usually, only if they are desperately short of space and I doubt that this is the case yet, it is still early, but once again this false spring has got people ahead of themselves, I was chatting at the WBKA yesterday and worked out that last year was the first year I've ever done serious inspections before the WBKA convention date but last year was an exceptionally weird season. Judging by the weight of my hives I will have to remove some stores this year again and if it wasn't for the fact that it's getting wintry again next week I would have started opening up. Nowhere near the point of panicking ( or at least getting a bit concerned) yet because if it's too cold to inspect next week, they will be wolfing down the stores again anyway.

 

[BBC]

usually, only if they are desperately short of space and I doubt that this is the case yet, it is still early, but once again this false spring has got people ahead of themselves, I was chatting at the WBKA yesterday and worked out that last year was the first year I've ever done serious inspections before the WBKA convention date but last year was an exceptionally weird season. Judging by the weight of my hives I will have to remove some stores this year again and if it wasn't for the fact that it's getting wintry again next week I would have started opening up. Nowhere near the point of panicking ( or at least getting a bit concerned) yet because if it's too cold to inspect next week, they will be wolfing down the stores again anyway.

Well that’s an encouraging insight into what maybe happening.
However, I can confirm they are using this additional comb as storage space.
Should I consider removing a couple of frames of stores with view to replace if necessary later (should the weather deteriorate and stores be depleted).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Should I consider removing a couple of frames of stores with view to replace if necessary later

That's what I usually do - no need even to do anything like an inspection if the weather isn't great, just pop the lid, ascertain how much stores/space they have then just swap out a few frames., once they start using the extra space for brood they will also dive into the remaining stores to feed it so it should all balance out.

 

[ericbeaumont]

holding off on a full brood box inspection until mid April.

Never go by the calendar but by the season - the weather, and what is in flower.

 

[ericbeaumont]

they are using this additional comb as storage space

When estimating stores, brace comb is irrelevant; it tells you only that beespace is inaccurate, bees are expanding and young spring bees are going to work, they're running short of space, or that they're using free space in the warmest part of the box - above the nest. A mix of all, probably.

removing a couple of frames of stores with view to replace if necessary later (should the weather deteriorate and stores be depleted).

You've got the idea, but it depends what you find when you check those end frames.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Never go by the calendar but by the season - the weather, and what is in flower.

Absolutely. Snow forecast in a lot of places from mid week

 

[BBC]

Thank you kindly for your advice and the wee lesson I’ve just had. I’ve learnt some valuable gems this morning.
Half a dozen brood frames knocked up ready to be inserted this afternoon.

 

[BBC]

Thank you kindly for your advice and the wee lesson I’ve just had. I’ve learnt some valuable gems this morning.
Half a dozen brood frames knocked up ready to be inserted this afternoon.

Probably only replace a couple of stored frames (half a dozen knocked together to keep me in front).

 

[drex]

They are cramming stores into, possibly, the last bit of remaining space, so why are you still feeding. ?

 

[BBC]

They are cramming stores into, possibly, the last bit of remaining space, so why are you still feeding. ?

Which brings us nicely back to my original request for advice….

 

[BBC]

Which brings us nicely back to my original request for advice….

Apologies, didn’t mean that to seem sarcastic. Naturally, if my hunch were right, then of course I would be removing the fondant as a matter of course. However, I am also aware of the temperature change heading our way, where upon some of the stores may very well be depleted.

 

[BBC]

That looks like the normal brace comb you get once the colony gets going, on it's own it means nothing. Not going to labour you with repeating the good advice already given in the last few posts.
Bees like to stick things down as firmly as possible - remember that in the wild, the comb they live on would be securely fixed to the ceiling!

After checking and preparing to replace a couple of frames, you called it sir!
Both end frames are almost completely devoid of stores and/or brood.
They are obviously securing the frames to the crown board. I removed the comb build up on the frames and crown board and tucked them all nicely back.
Concerns over!