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fincaazul 

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when I started with bees in 1974 a national hive would hold 11 brood frames at the correct spacing, no need for a dummy board. today there seems just a little too much room and brace/wild comb is produced making it harder to manage.Of course in those days one would be collecting several swarms a week and it was often a struggle to give them away. Happy days.
 

Busy Bee 

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That depends on which frames and spacing your using?
I have noticed if I use plastic spacers (DN1) 11 frames fit nice and snug but if I use hoffman (DN4) frames I can get 12 frames into a BB. Now this is the problem, on several occasions I have come across hoffmans frames of all different sizes which causes deep cells and shallow cells on the brood frames.

I think I prefer good old spaced frames (DN1).


Busy Bee
 

fincaazul 

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frame spacing

No hoffman frames then although they appeared later in my early beekeeping days. Find that modern equipment takes no account of 'bee space'. Wire queen excluders framed on both sides encourages brace comb building making removal difficult and cleaning a chore. Same with crown boards, they are set too high and hard to remove making inspection a trial. Beekeeping should be enjoyable
 

MuswellMetro 

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I have noticed if I use plastic spacers (DN1) 11 frames fit nice and snug but if I use hoffman (DN4) frames I can get 12 frames into a BB. Now this is the problem, on several occasions I have come across hoffmans frames of all different sizes which causes deep cells and shallow cells on the brood frames.

I think I prefer good old spaced frames (DN1).


Busy Bee

HOFFMANS AS SUPPLIED BY BIG COMPANIES are 35mm as opposed to 36.5/37mm. they are the langstroth width

so it it is posible to get 12 hoffmans in a brood 12x35=420 as a brood is 422/424 wide....and i know beeks who do it, wherease the 37mm spacer means you get 11 plus dummy, just as the book say

as i use hoffmans in a 14x12, at a push rather than add a super to the brood if crowded i will clean the hoffmans sides and force in a 12th frame
 

Skyhook 

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HOFFMANS AS SUPPLIED BY BIG COMPANIES are 35mm as opposed to 36.5/37mm. they are the langstroth width

Just a thought... as I understand it, the queens decision to lay a worker or drone egg is based partly on the width of the cell, and partly on the ratio of width to depth. If that's right, could the difference in spacing encourage more drone laying?
 

fincaazul 

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I have noticed if I use plastic spacers (DN1) 11 frames fit nice and snug but if I use hoffman (DN4) frames I can get 12 frames into a BB. Now this is the problem, on several occasions I have come across hoffmans frames of all different sizes which causes deep cells and shallow cells on the brood frames.

I think I prefer good old spaced frames (DN1).


Busy Bee
problem with bee space is not with spacers or frame types( hoffman etc. ) but that economy frames with a straight top bar when used with a spacer means that there is some three sixteenth of an inch more than bee space so brace comb will be built.
 

johna 

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You can blame metrication as much as anything for the problem , "rounding down" dimensions to the nearest whole milimeter reduces the dimensions of hive timber,frame side bars ( hoffman ) and so on increasing internal hive dimensions.The beespace gets stretched just enough to push the bees into making brace comb and excessive propolisation.
 

MuswellMetro 

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You can blame metrication as much as anything for the problem , "rounding down" dimensions to the nearest whole milimeter reduces the dimensions of hive timber,frame side bars ( hoffman ) and so on increasing internal hive dimensions.The beespace gets stretched just enough to push the bees into making brace comb and excessive propolisation.
thinks it is rather more using cutting parts from woodworking machinces that are designed to cut 35mm side bars for langstroths not nationals

in the 70's you could still get 37mm hoffman sides from small suppliers, now all you get from the big suppliers is 35mm hoffmans that are really continental Langstroth width not national width which should be 36 to 37mm

( unless someone knows a supplier of 37mm hoffmans:()

Cushman's web site suggest other38mm hoffman widths were available but i have never see any

some of our BKA members are using 12 x 35mm hoffmans and no dummy in 14x12 but its a bit crowded in a heavy propilised/waxed hive
 

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