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derekm 

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Do honey bees lay both sides of a intercomb gap (between comb bee space) as a rule or do they often lay on only one side of the gap? The inter comb gap here is the important part of the question. I must admit I've never noticed in 10 years, but then I was not looking for it.
but I found this line in paper "
The location and size of the brood area on the comb surfaces in adjacent frames facing each other was more or less identical." is this statement true in your experience? It has some profound effects in heat transfer.


Sudarsan R, Thompson C, Kevan PG, Eberl HJ. Flow currents and ventilation in Langstroth beehives due to brood thermoregulation efforts of honeybees. J Theor Biol. 2012;295(November):168–93.
 

Finman 

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Bees know what they do. They try to keep brooding area in ball form. If it is not perfect all the time, it has no meaning. Drone brood can be here and there in Super gaps.

No need to do Something.
 
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Gilberdyke John 

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Do honey bees lay both sides of a intercomb gap (between comb bee space) as a rule or do they often lay on only one side of the gap? The inter comb gap here is the important part of the question. I must admit I've never noticed in 10 years, but then I was not looking for it.
but I found this line in paper "
The location and size of the brood area on the comb surfaces in adjacent frames facing each other was more or less identical." is this statement true in your experience? It has some profound effects in heat transfer.


Sudarsan R, Thompson C, Kevan PG, Eberl HJ. Flow currents and ventilation in Langstroth beehives due to brood thermoregulation efforts of honeybees. J Theor Biol. 2012;295(November):168–93.
I'm not exactly sure what you are asking Derek but I have bias at both sides of adjacent frames in my brood boxes. Does this answer your question?
 

beeno 

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Yes, very untidy for us human's that are into "finish one before you start another" concept. I am sure it has to do with nurse bee efficiencies in feeding and keeping brood warm.
 

derekm 

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Ok its a bit difficult to percieve so here is a diagram of only 6 combs haveing brood in the middle of the nest of 12 frames , cut away so you can see the brood and covering bees. The red is brood the dark red covering bees, one full frame is left as an example. At the ends there is only one side of the comb with brood so it appears half the thickness .(ignore the clunky rectangular shape of the brood). On the combs nearer the centre both sides are brood. The question is really do bees lay up in "comb gaps at a time" or "combs at a time"? This diagram would be "comb gaps at at time".1606909995442.png
 
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jenkinsbrynmair 

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I still haven't the foggiest as to what you are trying to convey here.
Are you trying to say that the outermost frame will only have brood on the side facing the centre of the nest? therefore a comb devoid of brood facing the rest of the unoccupied frames?
In which case, I often find that the outermost frame in the nest has brood on both sides - the outermost brood on the 'last' frame facing the next frame which usually has plenty of stores and pollen
 

derekm 

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I still haven't the foggiest as to what you are trying to convey here.
Are you trying to say that the outermost frame will only have brood on the side facing the centre of the nest? therefore a comb devoid of brood facing the rest of the unoccupied frames?
In which case, I often find that the outermost frame in the nest has brood on both sides - the outermost brood on the 'last' frame facing the next frame which usually has plenty of stores and pollen
You have got it. "outermost frame (with brood) will only have brood on the side facing the centre of the nest? "
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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You have got it. "outermost frame (with brood) will only have brood on the side facing the centre of the nest? "
In that case, no - I've often seen outermost frame (with brood) facing towards and away from the centre of the nest.
 

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The question is really do bees lay up in "comb gaps at a time" or "combs at a time"?
I (think) I understand what you mean now; from my observations I would say that the Queen lays up comb gaps, not combs (frames); whenever I've wanted to make up two frame mating nucs and I'm low on capped brood, I have often found that the two sides of the same frame are at different stages of development (I'm referring to larvae here - after you've looked at larvae for a bit too long you can date them to within 12hrs at a glance). I've usually only seen eggs on both sides of the frame, with 24hrs age difference, if there is no space on one of the two sides in the gap, that then seems to force the Queen onto the other side of the comb (frame) - obviously if the opposite side to which she is laying on is not cleaned out in time for her to start laying, this too will force her to the other side of the comb (frame).
When I first noticed this I thought it was strange as I had assumed (re-enforced by advocates of 12" deeps) that the Queen would be more willing to stay on the same frame and only leave it whenever it was laid up, so the reason would follow that she would also be hesitant to move from upper to lower frames - across the frame gap - but I have not observed a reluctance of the queen moving across these gaps (evidenced by continuous football shaped brood areas across upper and lower frames).
I suppose it makes sense, eggs, larvae at different stages, etc. are treated differently by nurse bees (different humidity and differing food), so it would be more efficient for nurse bees to be surrounded by cells requiring similar treatment - the last thing a nurse bee wants when she's trying to maintain humidity at 95% inside a cell with an egg is a bee on the opposite side of the comb trying to cure nectar and fanning away to remove humidity!
 

derekm 

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Now the next bit:
is there ever half a seam of bees when its cold/cool outside i.e bees just covering the brood on one side rather than blocking the entire comb gap? which of these two?
1606918203039.png1606918263815.png
 
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Finman 

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You have got it. "outermost frame (with brood) will only have brood on the side facing the centre of the nest? "
But it is not so at all

You admit that you have never seen the case but now you created a rule to the case which does not exist.


Beatles: let it be
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Ian123 

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Depends totally on how many bees there are.
Yes she will often lay up the face of the outer frame facing the wall if they are that cramped. And just to chuck in a curve ball if on a nice thin wooden hive they will sometimes use the sunny side of the hive wall and start brood rearing there in winter/spring. You also see this use of heat in some of my double Nucs sharing a single national box. They use the shared heat and party wall. Ian
 

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Derek what do Elaine’s bees do?
 

derekm 

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Derek what do Elaine’s bees do?
Can't really remember because I wasnt looking for this sort of relationship, until the CFD started giving results for heat loss on the outer combs. One is aware that as you inspect, soon as you find brood its fairly solid, until you get to the other end. JBM's observation seems to ring a bell, but I'm not sure. You see this heat loss effect to minor extent without "broodcovering bees" in in-vitro experiments. But before I move on to insert 3D printed bees I need to check back with "reality" e.g. here. And as we speak I'm doing another sim based one of the alternative above.
 
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derekm 

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Depends totally on how many bees there are.
but is rare or is it a common occurrence? I know conditions are vaiable and so are the bees, but if I can get even an impression as to what they do
 

beeno 

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Another thing that I found interesting is that the bees themselves split the broodnest with store frames particularly pollen. When the seasonal bee inspector was here he asked if I had done it, as it is something we are taught that we must not do!
 

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