Brittle wax. Why?

[Beeconcerned]

Wax I recover from cappings or combs is always much more brittle than the wax in foundation sheets whether it comes from the solar extractor or melting pot even and even if I refine it a few times. Do they add something to foundation wax?

 

[Poly Hive]

It is milled under pressure hence the difference.

PH

 

[victor meldrew]

It is milled under pressure hence the difference.

PH

This is why rolled foundation is better than cast
VM

 

[huntsman666]

Are you compensating for minor temperature difference between your observations? +/- 2C'ish will make a big difference.

 

[Beeconcerned]

Thanks for the replies. I'm surprised. Rolling most things under pressure makes them harder doesn't it?

My wax doesn't have that foundation smell either. How do they get that?

 

[victor meldrew]

Thanks for the replies. I'm surprised. Rolling most things under pressure makes them harder doesn't it?

My wax doesn't have that foundation smell either. How do they get that?

Wax isn't metal
Various metals ,aluminium for one can be both work hardened and age hardened but bees wax works to entirely different principles ! The precise molecular changes I know not of but I've witnessed the practical differences of both casting and rolling .
After rolling, the wax sheet stays malleable .
Obviously temperature plays its part and will effect both rolled and cast if low enough and of course will melt both at the other extreme
VM

 

[huntsman666]

Keep in mind he's comparing foundation but to what?

Foundation as we all know has small starter hexagons offset on both sides. This could/should* considerably strengthen the sheet in bending compared to a plain sheet of similar weight but totally flat. Holes relieve stress, so would hollow hexagons.

*The bees themselves worked this one out over millions of years.

There are lots of design engineering solutions in nature.

 

[victor meldrew]

Keep in mind he's comparing foundation but to what?

Foundation as we all know has small starter hexagons offset on both sides. This could/should* considerably strengthen the sheet in bending compared to a plain sheet of similar weight but totally flat. Holes relieve stress, so would hollow hexagons.

*The bees themselves worked this one out over millions of years.

There are lots of design engineering solutions in nature.

I have used aerofoil which is a honey comb structured material!
The technique we employed was to fill the cells with beeswax , giving stability whilst the profile was shaped using wood working tools . the finished shape would then form the core of flaps aerlerons and other flying surfaces
If you compare the cast foundation ( hexagons and all) with rolled foundation, you will find the rolled foundation less brittle !.
Remember the bees , soften, chew and manipulate the wax to form brace/ wild comb , they certainly don't cast it .
VM

 

[viridens]

VM - Very interesting!

Natural comb is also pliable at first, and becomes more brittle as it ages. I wonder if something (a volatile oil, or bee saliva?) dries out of it?

I also wonder about the odour of foundation. My wax doesn't smell like that either.

 

[victor meldrew]

VM - Very interesting!

Natural comb is also pliable at first, and becomes more brittle as it ages. I wonder if something (a volatile oil, or bee saliva?) dries out of it?

I also wonder about the odour of foundation. My wax doesn't smell like that either.

Oxidation I shouldn't wonder ?
VM

 

[viridens]

Quote:
...Beeswax is exuded as a glandular secretion from
the lower abdomen of worker bees. It is a fatty
acid composed of 16% hydrocarbons, 31% straight
chain monohydric alcohols, 3% diols, 31% acids,
13% hydroxy acids, and 6% other substances.
The oxidation of beeswax is so slow as to be
negligible – pieces taken from Egyptian tombs
have been still pliable. Beeswax washed ashore
from wrecks and long buried on ocean beaches
has been reclaimed, none the worse for wear...

Doug Somerville
Australian District Livestock Officer (Apiculture)

http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/.../making-beeswax-furniture-polish.pdf

I'll stick with my original guess that some of those alcohols or whatever are volatile.

 

[Polyanwood]

I wonder if you are in a hard water area? London water is hard ( alkaline ), so when I clean wax by boiling it in water, I always add some acid to stop it saponifying. Perhaps this is wrong, but I thought that was how to keep it pliable.

If it is fancy white cappings I want for face cream I use fresh lime juice, but if it is just bog standard, I use bottled lemon juice or even at a push white vinegar in the water to make sure it is slightly soft ( acidic ).

Do you science boffins reckon this is a waste of time?