Bringing Out The Dead

[Mabee]

I currently have two hives in the garden and have been watching and comparing them this year. One big noticeable difference is the dead being brought out from one hive, there is currently a daily deposit of (5-20) dead bees being left at the entrance, on the other hand the second hive has had virtually none (1-5 total)! I’m trying to figure out, and may not know till I open them in Spring, if one is simply not as efficient at bringing out their dead or are they better at flying out and dying outside the hive. The hive without the dead bodies has many desirable characteristics (i’m looking to breed from this queen this year) and i’m wondering if this could be another. Both have had the same treatment, same age of queen, same amount of food and space etc. Any (more experienced) thoughts?

 

[The Poot]

I have exactly the same scenario.
I‘m waiting until Spring to see what’s what.
My colony with the dead outside showed zero varroa fall in September and December. Perhaps these are those mythical hygienic bees?
If so they might like to learn how to dump their dead further away from the hive!

 

[Newbeeneil]

Some hives dump the dead directly outside, others struggle to take them a distance. Its lovely to watch an undertaker trying to spiral away carrying a corpse from my garden hive that's surrounded by sheds!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mine are different. Some bring out their dead some not. If you want to see if there are dead bees inside take video up through the OMF. I wouldn't worry if there are a few

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've often found that some colonies take out their dead at every opportunity and others just leave them pile up on the floor until spring weather proper has arrived

 

[Swarm]

I find very few dead bees on the floors, a few corpses in the porch usually. One nuc every visit, had a little pile of corpses around the side of the entrance, on the block the nuc was standing on which looked a little suspicious.

 

[Mabee]

I have exactly the same scenario.
I‘m waiting until Spring to see what’s what.
My colony with the dead outside showed zero varroa fall in September and December. Perhaps these are those mythical hygienic bees?
If so they might like to learn how to dump their dead further away from the hive!

Mine are the opposite, the ones with no dead had virtually no varroa drop!

 

[Mabee]

Mine are different. Some bring out their dead some not. If you want to see if there are dead bees inside take video up through the OMF. I wouldn't worry if there are a few

No OMF’s on these hives

 

[The Poot]

Mine are the opposite, the ones with no dead had virtually no varroa drop!

It just proves you can’t deduce anything from bee behaviour, they just do whatever they like!

 

[Erichalfbee]

No OMF’s on these hives

Well then you can’t look

 

[Do224]

Well then you can’t look

shine a torch through the entrance?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I currently have two hives in the garden and have been watching and comparing them this year. One big noticeable difference is the dead being brought out from one hive, there is currently a daily deposit of (5-20) dead bees being left at the entrance, on the other hand the second hive has had virtually none (1-5 total)! I’m trying to figure out, and may not know till I open them in Spring, if one is simply not as efficient at bringing out their dead or are they better at flying out and dying outside the hive. The hive without the dead bodies has many desirable characteristics (i’m looking to breed from this queen this year) and i’m wondering if this could be another. Both have had the same treatment, same age of queen, same amount of food and space etc. Any (more experienced) thoughts?

Always worth probing the hive entrance in case it's blocked. A bit of bent wire could be used to rake out corpses if it is.

 

[Mabee]

Just to add the bees are out flying when temps allow so they’re not blocked in, if there are bodies they are in the hive on the floor. The hives are my AZ hives in the shed so they exit via a short clear pipe, I can see just looking that the pipe is clear of any bees. The hives have a solid base with a raised OMF and slide in tray so although I can’t stick a phone in to photograph I can see uncappings in the tray so the cappings are obviously getting through the screen floor.
So that has lead to me thinking either the hive with no dead being brought out, doesn’t have so much die off, is better at old bees dying outside the hive therefore being really hygienic or isn’t cleaning up at all yet!

 

[Moobee]

I find very few dead bees on the floors, a few corpses in the porch usually. One nuc every visit, had a little pile of corpses around the side of the entrance, on the block the nuc was standing on which looked a little suspicious.

hmmmm, i've had a pile of dead bees behind one of my hives. I'm wondering if a bird is sitting on the fence picking them off as they fly out....

 

[Mabee]

hmmmm, i've had a pile of dead bees behind one of my hives. I'm wondering if a bird is sitting on the fence picking them off as they fly out....

Could be a mouse or shrew eating the dead bees (if the bees are in bits), I think a bird would dispose of all evidence.

 

[Moobee]

Could be a mouse or shrew eating the dead bees (if the bees are in bits), I think a bird would dispose of all evidence.

I'll go and inspect a bit further! They are a few feet behind the hive in a pile in the gravel. We do get lots of mice in the garden so always have to deploy mouseguards. They made a right mess of my carefully (!) stored horticultural fleece in the greenhouse one year, full of holes.

 

[Swarm]

I was thinking opportunist mouse or shrew as well. It's not like I was checking daily or even weekly, it just appeared they were too conveniently taken around the side, away from the entrance.

 

[cwinte]

Increasing dead bees is what I had last year from early season, eventually 2 hives died out (May and July-ish) due to a virus - not convinced what it was, maybe CBPV (SBI thought) but maybe not (D.J.Evas useful input & info). ALSO I observed a lack of verroa drops on all moribund hives as one of the early signs of this syndrome.
It was not my suspected rarer form of Nosema, Nosema ceranae according to microscopic evaluations, this N.c form was linked also to lack of verroa drop by some.
My last remaining hive has survived so far and is active on warmer days but I give it no more than 50/50 it will survive this summer.
I am trying out a bottomless hive to reduce contamination from sick/dead bees and this hugely reduced the dead out front at the end of last year. I could not find large piles of dead inside the drop funnel (a heavy plastic sheet cone below the stand level to keep wasps etc out) from then on. [It does make vaping much harder].

 

[Mabee]

Increasing dead bees is what I had last year from early season, eventually 2 hives died out (May and July-ish) due to a virus - not convinced what it was, maybe CBPV (SBI thought) but maybe not (D.J.Evas useful input & info). ALSO I observed a lack of verroa drops on all moribund hives as one of the early signs of this syndrome.
It was not my suspected rarer form of Nosema, Nosema ceranae according to microscopic evaluations, this N.c form was linked also to lack of verroa drop by some.
My last remaining hive has survived so far and is active on warmer days but I give it no more than 50/50 it will survive this summer.
I am trying out a bottomless hive to reduce contamination from sick/dead bees and this hugely reduced the dead out front at the end of last year. I could not find large piles of dead inside the drop funnel (a heavy plastic sheet cone below the stand level to keep wasps etc out) from then on. [It does make vaping much harder].

sorry to hear that.

I’m hoping the low mite drop is nothing significant, like you’ve experienced. Can I ask if you treated them for varroa?

 

[cwinte]

sorry to hear that.

I’m hoping the low mite drop is nothing significant, like you’ve experienced. Can I ask if you treated them for varroa?

They have had regular oxalic vapes as and when required, which always seemed to reduce the drop rates which I used to keep an at least weekly eye on as part of assessing the hives (rather than opening up hives all the time).
My remaining hive had two, late Dec/early Jan, despite me not finding much sign of any drop - I put that down to the difficulty of checking with the skirt/funnel in place and nowhere to slide in a board (or vape tool for that matter).

If I ever try a bottomless hive again I will do a bit more prep on how to provide an adjustable bee entrance and a sealable slot for an observation board/vaping. (I had to retrofit the bee entrance when I realised the returning foragers had nowhere to get in!)