BN Cedar brood box - pic wanted of frame lug support

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richardbees 

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Sorry, I don't have a camera so will have to describe:

I've just looked in a new Cedar hive brood box (fully occupied) where the two sides supporting the frames had an upward wedge shape (like the ski jump ramp on HMS Ark Royal) which the lugs of the frames rested on.

Is this standard design? I'd appreciate a picture if that's the case.....

I'm asking because I'm not all that sure that this brood box has been made up correctly as there is 1/4" space at the top of the frames .

Thanks, Richard
 

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My supers and brood boxes are like that. The "ski ramp" is stainless steel on mine. makes sliding the frames easier.
 

Black Comb 

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These are the frame runners.
Brood boxes are either top or bottom bee space - sounds like yours is top bee space.

Need to check it as nationals are normally supplied bottom bee space as standard.
 

oliver90owner 

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This space is above the frames? If so, that would be top bee space.

There is usually a bee space below the lugs so the bees do not propolise the frames in position.

Regards, RAB
 
T

Tom Bick 

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Are you saying a 1/4" gap from the top of the frames to the top of the sides of the BB if so then this is a top bee space arrangement

or

Are you referring to a 1/4" gap formed under the frame lugs as they sit on the frame runners or as you describe them as "upward wedge shapes".

Both are correct and it is the bee space.
 

MuswellMetro 

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Sorry, I don't have a camera so will have to describe:

I've just looked in a new Cedar hive brood box (fully occupied) where the two sides supporting the frames had an upward wedge shape (like the ski jump ramp on HMS Ark Royal) which the lugs of the frames rested on.

Is this standard design? I'd appreciate a picture if that's the case.....

I'm asking because I'm not all that sure that this brood box has been made up correctly as there is 1/4" space at the top of the frames .

Thanks, Richard
does this help
 

Mike a 

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Bottom bee space - The frames are almost flush with the top edge of the brood chamber.


Top bee space - the frames hang below the top edge of the brood chamber by about 6mm.

 

richardbees 

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Thanks for the diagram but it doesn't really help as I'm talking about the inner 'ledge' that the frames rest on, all of mine (for the last 20 years) are either plastic, galvanised steel strips or crenellated strips nailed onto a flat edge.

With the hive in question the inner ledge is already shaped like the 'bottom runner' in the above diagram so I am wondering if there has been a new design introduced. but I'm beginning to suspect the brood box was wrongly made up

(Thanks for replies re top and bottom space,,,,the rest of the kit is 'bottom' space)

Any further thoughts will be welcomed

Richard
 

richardbees 

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I posted before Mike A's pics.

It's not a question of 'top' or 'bottom' bee space but about the design of the ledge the frame lugs rest on.....
 

Mike a 

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Sounds like either a very old hive or just not made to have a frame runner support fitted which will lead to bees being crushed under the frame lugs. This may sound odd but is it possible it was put it together wrong. Have a look at the bottom space and see if the chamber would work upside down and if a frame runner could be fitted?
 
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Hivemaker. 

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I know exactly what you mean....seems as some just make them like this,saves having to have separate runners to nail on....should be no problem.
 

MuswellMetro 

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I posted before Mike A's pics.

It's not a question of 'top' or 'bottom' bee space but about the design of the ledge the frame lugs rest on.....
i think you have similar hives to fragile planet ply supers

the 6mm rise is obtained by cuttig the top of the inner wall at 45 degrees, the frames rests on the top of the 45 degree slope and the top bar is 6mm lower this top edge..soory about quality of photo
 
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richardbees 

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Mike A

Spot on - exactly what I'm thinking! It's a brand spanking new, very expensive, top of the range cedar model supplied already 'made-up'. The next time I visit I'll take an empty brood boxe and transfer all the frames.....then have a good look at this 'hybrid'.

Unless somebody comes on here with an alternative explanation...?
 

richardbees 

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sorry muswell, missed your post.

your description sounds right but this is 'top of the range' cedar

(more tomorrow, good night)
 
T

Tom Bick 

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Should have metal frame runners although it will work but in time they will wear with scraping and the thin edge will catch when scorching. You do see this in supers but me thinks perhaps not in a top of the range cedar hive BB.
 

MuswellMetro 

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sorry muswell, missed your post.

your description sounds right but this is 'top of the range' cedar

(more tomorrow, good night)
cutting corners for a 98p metal runner aint top of the range :D..and cedar is softer than ply


and you may ask ,why are the bits in the picture damaged....cos the girls in this one were left for 2 months without inspection ( beek ill ) and i broke it trying to extract frames..it had been glued together rather than nailed
 
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BERNIE 

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chocolate just out the fridge is harder than cedar.should have the metal runners as tom said, cedar has its +points but so soft.
 

MuswellMetro 

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chocolate just out the fridge is harder than cedar.should have the metal runners as tom said, cedar has its +points but so soft.
i have some funny supers that have the metal runner in the middle between the side and top bar...works ok, and you do not catch the runner when scrapeing the super clean
 

PaleoPerson 

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This design is probably from Maisemore's. They have the runner built into the design of the timber and not meant to take a metal or plastic runner.

I have some of these and have found them very difficult to move the frames on once they have been propolised. I have taken to putting the sides in upside down and backwards and installing a metal runner when building these now.

And yes, this is their A1 grade hive.
 

oliver90owner 

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It's a brand spanking new, very expensive, top of the range cedar model

I never take any notice of advertising hype. Apart from ignoring it, because that is all it is, hype. I am not disputing the facts at all. They have to conform to certain standards, but:

Everything is a 'quality' product whether the quality is good, bad, or just plain ugly.

Expensive does not necessarily mean 'not value for money' or 'the best quality you can buy'. It simply means it costs more and is the better product of that particular range. So if 'top of the range' is suspect, one wonders about the 'bottom' of the range - although there may be, of course, very little difference between the two!

Doesn't help the thread, but might explain the advertising 'wordology'!

Sorry, but at my age and having seen a lot of it I am rather cynical of advertising clap-trap.

Regards, RAB
 

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