BFA membership

[Mint Bee]

Rather than hijack another thread, I thought I would raise the question on requirements for BFA membership here. Potential member has been told to re apply when he has >60 production colonies. So allowing for nuc production and queen rearing this probably pushes total hive numbers to somewhere near 80/ 90 min needed for a membership application?
As mentioned by Rolande, the original guideline was 40+, although I understand that this number is less of a key parameter in recent years; the focus appears to a more business orientated application. Does appear as if BKA are missing a trick in not going back to a form of associate membership for those working with a substantial number of hives but who haven't made the jump from acceptable numbers for BBKA to those now being indicated for BKA membership. Would certainly help support and mentor new bee-farmers in a way the apprenticeship scheme does for those who want to get a start in the industry

I would welcome any thoughts from BFA members who have taken the journey from large hobbyist to part time small scale bee framer (I seem to remember a few threads on this in the past), although maybe that's the subject for a different thread .

 

[Stiffy]

You no longer have to specify the number of hives you run when joining but do need to show that you are running on a commercial basis, however small. You also need to find a referee to vouch for you.
Best decision we ever made was to join as we get lots of offers, help and most importantly sound advice from members who have been there a while and have the bruises.

 

[Boston Bees]

The limit is probably to avoid having their time wasted by endless wannabe-beefarmers who aren't really going to stick at it.

 

[rolande]

I was surprised by the requiremt of 60 production colonies before he could reapply. This leaves a clear gap between BBKA and BFA public and product liability cover. Hardly the best way to support the industry. If there were other reasons for not accepting him, fine, but to require 60 production colonies seems odd especially in the light of stiffly saying that there isn't a need to specify colony numbers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As mentioned by Rolande, the original guideline was 40+, .

Yes and no - it used to be quite a bit more than that, but if you had nearing 40 you could apply for an associate membership, a sort of 'Bee smallholder' with the understanding that within a reasonable amount of time you would increase your holdings thus get your membership confirmed.
Nowadays it's not so much the numbers of hives you have but what sort of business model you have, and bee related produce/activities count as much as number of hives.
When you apply to join they will expect at least two items of documentary evidence (such as invoices demonstrating your wholesale supply to retailers etc) to support your application. You don't need a referee any more although it does help if you have current members to support your application.

 

[Newbeeneil]

When I applied last year I had a referee which I'm sure helped but the main part of my application was based on my business as it stood and my plans to develop it.
I only had around 50 hives/nucs when I applied but I also maintained about 20 more for clients.
I outlined turnovers from previous years and offered projections of future turnovers.
I got the impression the BFA are mainly interested in applicants who are looking to push their businesses and not hobbyists looking for the kudos of playing with "the big boys".

 

[Curly green finger's]

Interestingly I have a reference, I think I'm not certain but bfa members put the spanner in the works for me.
Like Neil I have my own hives and run 30 for someone else both are expanding I will reapply next year as suggested by the bfa.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

bfa members put the spanner in the works for me.

Hmm, how do you make that out then? members can only object if they are aware of a substantive issue that the board should take into account when considering the application and are able and willing to provide factual evidence in support.

 

[pargyle]

Whilst I don't have expeience of the BFA I have been a member of a trade association in the past and the entry bar was pretty high - you had to produce 3 years of accounts, references from Trade suppliers, details of your workforce, a synopsis of your business plan and subscribe to some quality standards. There were benefits to being a member and the high bar was there to stop johnny come lately from joining, using the logo as evidence of them being of substance, milking it and going off never to be seen again. Membership fees were not cheap either but it was a well respected, well run, trade association and there was always help when you needed it. I suspect the BFA are much the same and are reluctant to dilute their membership with people who just want it to say they are a beefarmer without the numbers and infrastructure to back it up.

I once looked at another association which may have assisted my business if you believed the literature that they put out ... I contacted someone who I knew was a member and asked what the entry requirements were ... his answer ... A cheque book. Needless to say I didn't bother and if the BFA sets the bar high then I for one (as a hobbyist and not a proper beekeeper) wholeheartedly endorse their principles. It takes a lot to resist the lure of additional income by lowering standards.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’m sure you need a realistic working plan with some decent past history; just like any other professional association.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think I'm not certain but bfa members put the spanner in the works for me.

I think this needs clarifying. Or maybe even a retraction.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I think this needs clarifying. Or maybe even a retraction.

The only way I will know is by contacting bfa.
But I retract my statement untill I'm 100% certain

 

[Into the lions den]

As a board member I can say I did not hear of any 'spanner in the works'.
Also...there is no set number of colonies owned for entry. Some have less. There are frequent applications from people who are just too early in their move from a hobby to a professional, sometimes even just starting out in bees and wanting to run before they are actually yet competent. Plainly I will NOT be naming names. Would like to see the actual wording you got back from Alex on this. PM me if you wish.

Rejection is rare
Defer is more common to give the person time to demonstrate direction of travel
Accept is by far the most common

As stated elsewhere an issue to bring forth rejection must be substantive....little trade or turf wars between two individuals does not count.

As for joining? Just try to get business insurance that provides adequate cover for less than your full annual subscription.....you get the whole package for less than your insurance premium elsewhere....and if you ever DO buy a new pick up truck the discount is about 30 years subs...and you can sell it in 3 years for almost your full purchase price.

What's not to like?

 

[Curly green finger's]

As a board member I can say I did not hear of any 'spanner in the works'.
Also...there is no set number of colonies owned for entry. Some have less. There are frequent applications from people who are just too early in their move from a hobby to a professional, sometimes even just starting out in bees and wanting to run before they are actually yet competent. Plainly I will NOT be naming names. Would like to see the actual wording you got back from Alex on this. PM me if you wish.

Rejection is rare
Defer is more common to give the person time to demonstrate direction of travel
Accept is by far the most common

As stated elsewhere an issue to bring forth rejection must be substantive....little trade or turf wars between two individuals does not count.

As for joining? Just try to get business insurance that provides adequate cover for less than your full annual subscription.....you get the whole package for less than your insurance premium elsewhere....and if you ever DO buy a new pick up truck the discount is about 30 years subs...and you can sell it in 3 years for almost your full purchase price.

What's not to like?

Sending a pm.
And thanks for clearing up the spanner in the works bit.
Your reference to not having to have x amount of hives to be a member and also the suggestion to reapply when I had 60 production colonys?
I know I'm wet behind the ears in the grand scheme of things, but I don't feel I'm running before I can walk it feels to me like a natural progression and a professional career I will do untill the end of my days.
I would like to say in 2004 I joined the guild of master craftsmen for 10 years being only 24 and starting a landscaping business something I had only been doing for a short amount of time my application was approved because of my standard of work and client recommendations.
Applying to the bfa maybe there should also be such requirements?
A bfa representative going out to meet pertential new members because some beekeepers are better at presenting what they are doing and trying to achieve than writing it all down.
Maybe a combination of requirements? More than just filling in a form and getting a referee.

 

[Erichalfbee]

As a board member I can say I did not hear of any 'spanner in the works'.
Also...there is no set number of colonies owned for entry. Some have less. There are frequent applications from people who are just too early in their move from a hobby to a professional, sometimes even just starting out in bees and wanting to run before they are actually yet competent. Plainly I will NOT be naming names. Would like to see the actual wording you got back from Alex on this. PM me if you wish.

Rejection is rare
Defer is more common to give the person time to demonstrate direction of travel
Accept is by far the most common

As stated elsewhere an issue to bring forth rejection must be substantive....little trade or turf wars between two individuals does not count.

As for joining? Just try to get business insurance that provides adequate cover for less than your full annual subscription.....you get the whole package for less than your insurance premium elsewhere....and if you ever DO buy a new pick up truck the discount is about 30 years subs...and you can sell it in 3 years for almost your full purchase price.

What's not to like?

Thank you for clearing that one up

 

[pargyle]

Sending a pm.
And thanks for clearing up the spanner in the works bit.
Your reference to not having to have x amount of hives to be a member and also the suggestion to reapply when I had 60 production colonys?
I know I'm wet behind the ears in the grand scheme of things, but I don't feel I'm running before I can walk it feels to me like a natural progression and a professional career I will do untill the end of my days.
I would like to say in 2004 I joined the guild of master craftsmen for 10 years being only 24 and starting a landscaping business something I had only been doing for a short amount of time my application was approved because of my standard of work and client recommendations.
Applying to the bfa maybe there should also be such requirements?
A bfa representative going out to meet pertential new members because some beekeepers are better at presenting what they are doing and trying to achieve than writing it all down.
Maybe a combination of requirements? More than just filling in a form and getting a referee.

I would not crow too loudly about the guild of master craftsman.... all you need to join is to fill in a form and send a cheque off. They don't have much of a reputation in the real world - you only have to be in business for 6 months... they don't check work completed and there are no assurances of quality. They used to write to me regularly asking me to join but they are infested with cowboy trades people who use it as some sort of legitimising badge and I didn't want to be associated with them. ... its a wonder they are still in business because that's all it is ... a company run by a bloke in Sussex - nice little earner I would think ! Have a look at the complaints you can find in Google about so called guild members...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would not crow too loudly about the guild of master craftsman.... all you need to join is to fill in a form and send a cheque off.

Sounds a bit like the Institute of Civil Engineers, all I had to do was pay an annual subscription fee to receive a quarterly magazine and I could append MICE to my name, and I had barely done two terms at technical college at that time!

 

[Erichalfbee]

A bfa representative going out to meet pertential new members because some beekeepers are better at presenting what they are doing and trying to achieve than writing it all down.
Maybe a combination of requirements? More than just filling in a form and getting a referee.

You might have a point… though like you I am not a member so my opinion is speculation.
The BFA is very powerful label so minimum requirements like decent extraction and storage facilities would be paramount.
I remember Black Mountain Honey starting extraction in his kitchen then swiftly moving over to a dedicated new honey room. That’s the sort of thing customers expect ?
I dream of a honey room. I wonder if I could persuade Stan to knock one up for me for my birthday

 

[Erichalfbee]

Maybe a combination of requirements? More than just filling in a form and getting a referee.

Why do you want the entry requirements changed? Why was your application unsuccessful? It might help someone else in your shoes ?

 

[pargyle]

Why do you want the entry requirements changed? Why was your application unsuccessful? It might help someone else in your shoes ?

Not in those shoes darling !