Best type of Warre frame, bar or part frame ?

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charentejohn

New Bee
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
61
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17
Location
Central France
Hive Type
warre
Number of Hives
2
Been discussing this elsewhere and wondered what people here think.
I am setting up a warre for next year and was going to use frames and foundation. I have been persuaded otherwise but wondered if anyone had tried the following for comparison.
The cut down frames, the lower half removed and a starter strip of foundation at the top.

Top bar with dowels at the ends and starter strip. They build down following the dowels.

Top bar with a wire loop same size as the original frame and starter strip. Seems they stay inside it but they will build down so no large gap below the comb.

Anyone used these or variations ?
 
It is claimed a warre hive is more "natural"..
Foundation is not "natural"...
 
I did see the delon frames and read a bit about other types, problem is they are written by the people who came up with them. I am sure they work well for them but just wondered if anyone had tried them and any snags they found.

I am awaiting bees next spring so am preparing, missed my chance this year. So I currently have full frames with foundation ready. I think I will change to top bars for next year.
That said there are variations on the theme. My preferred option is top bars with dowels and a foundation starter strip. My reason for this is that although I intend leaving the hive alone I may have to work on it. Apparently the dowels (or cutting the bottom half off a frame) make it easier to remove a comb. Some support to prevent breaking as well as keeping them from sticking it too firmly at the top.

I have no experience of slicing out warre comb so am just trying to make it easier for myself if I have to. The, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, principle.
 
As long as the dowels (side bars) respect the beespace between the dowel itself and the side wall of the hive, they should minimise the attachment of comb to the side walls.
My experience with foundationless is just the care you must exercise with the 'wobbly' comb. My own compromise was to add wire to a plain frame, which over time changed to an X shape with fishing line but as you want cut comb rather than crush and strain you probably don't want to use either wire or line.
 
Good point on the moving comb, hadn't thought of that. I won't be removing it, not taking honey as such, so wires wouldn't be a problem.

I was thinking of putting the dowels further from the hive walls ? A trade off I guess, normal bee space and they may not 'tag' them to the walls, too much and they will glue them as normal.
Dowels are just for strength in case I need to remove them so I would guess further from the walls would be better ?
 
Good point on the moving comb, hadn't thought of that. I won't be removing it, not taking honey as such, so wires wouldn't be a problem.

I was thinking of putting the dowels further from the hive walls ? A trade off I guess, normal bee space and they may not 'tag' them to the walls, too much and they will glue them as normal.
Dowels are just for strength in case I need to remove them so I would guess further from the walls would be better ?

Plan for inspections. If you have a visit from teh BI, and no plan for moving comb, the result could/will be very messy.
 
The only mod I made to my Warre was to add castellation frame runners and a strip of foundation on each bar. Only had to straighten the occasional wonky comb. Made myself a Warre hive tool for cutting it off the side of the box. No problem in removing combs on the rare occasion I do.
 
.............snip....
Dowels are just for strength in case I need to remove them so I would guess further from the walls would be better ?

Respect the beespace or you risk them building comb wall to wall.

Have you read Gilles Dines (french- so google translate)?
www.ruche-warre.com/cadres-ou-barrettes/
As he points out Warre intended the hive to be to be simple, so why complicate them with frames?
 
I am in France so only have to register a non commercial hive so they can check on where they are, no inspections as such so no enforced dismantling. More to do with monitoring bee populations I think.
I did see Giles Denis' site, he is adamant about the way to do things. I think his main business is transporting hives to pollenate fields etc. He says he uses the half frames for queen manipulation etc. otherwise most are top bar only.

The dowels instead of his half frames are similar ? Things can be improved, even the Abbe at one time considered full, if modified, frames were not out of the question https://warre.------------/frames.htm
As I said, what I am thinking of is basically top bars, just with some additional reinforcement in case I need to remove comb. So like Giles Denis' setup for queens, mine is just in case to give the same flexibilty.
 
Respect the beespace or you risk them building comb wall to wall

:iagree::iagree: any deviation from beespace will result in them propolising the space or filling with comb! Beware!!
 
...........snip.............I was thinking of putting the dowels further from the hive walls ? A trade off I guess, normal bee space and they may not 'tag' them to the walls, too much and they will glue them as normal.

Gareth John style half frames ??:spy:
 
That is where I think I am headed. I would put the dowels further from the walls so they can bury them and attach comb to the walls, just there to support the comb if it is removed. Also provides a potential guide to keep comb straight but they could ignore it if they want to.

To stop them attaching comb to the walls the Denis system would be best as the cut down frames should reduce attachment to the walls.
 
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