Best place in warm way hive to add foundation

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tchu 

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Hi all
I’m thinking about next season and wondering where in the hive should I place fresh foundation if the hive has a warm way set up: near the entrance, end of nest, where stores end, or where?
Thanks in advance
 

Erichalfbee 

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Next to the brood nest. Warm or cold makes no difference if you have a mesh floor
 

Poly Hive 

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The best place is slap dab in the middle of the brood nest. It's called plus one. When the bees are up to 6 frames of brood I put either a foundation or a comb in the middle and the next week there are 7 brood and often they have started on the 8th so another comb/foundation goes in again. When they are at that point I add the 2nd BB below and a super above.

I was taught this over 30 years ago and it works very well. Yes there are loads of nay sayers but I wonder if they have ever actually tried it. Has it ever failed? I cannot think of ever having an issue with it.
 

tchu 

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The best place is slap dab in the middle of the brood nest. It's called plus one. When the bees are up to 6 frames of brood I put either a foundation or a comb in the middle and the next week there are 7 brood and often they have started on the 8th so another comb/foundation goes in again. When they are at that point I add the 2nd BB below and a super above.

I was taught this over 30 years ago and it works very well. Yes there are loads of nay sayers but I wonder if they have ever actually tried it. Has it ever failed? I cannot think of ever having an issue with it.
Thanks; if that for warm way hives as well?
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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You need to forget about all this warm way/cold way guff - it make very little difference regardless of whether you have OMF or solid floors.
The only thing you'll find with warm way with a solid floor is that the first frame often gets ignored by the bees so is a total waste.
 

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The bees will find there own place for the nest without you bothering them by trying to advise them. They will pick the warmest place, when it is cold and the coolest place when hot.
One winter, one of the slabs of insulation slipped on a Dartington. By spring they were on the warm side of the hive with the other half of each frame still full of stores. My plan, at that stage, was to remove some unused stores frames. Bees will do what is best for them, not necessarily for the beekeeper.
 

tchu 

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Thank you all. Yesterday I was told by a bee inspector that undrawn foundation should be placed in the front of warm way hives and when the bees draw comb we should put them in the back for them to store food in, but in the winter any undrawn foundation should be taken out of the hive as they are better off in the dry. So maybe his advice was intended for this time particular time of the year, ie preparing for the winter. I’m a bit confused now as I’m a beginner but I’m guessing every beekeeper has its own way of doing things
 

TomH 

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The only thing you'll find with warm way with a solid floor is that the first frame often gets ignored by the bees so is a total waste.
Interesting, I have 7 hives with solid floors, the warm way and have observed exactly that. In every one the first frame is still undrawn foundation. Even moving frames around and putting a drawn one there, they dont seem to use it. I wonder what puts them off?
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Yesterday I was told by a bee inspector that undrawn foundation should be placed in the front of warm way hives and when the bees draw comb we should put them in the back for them to store food in,
Just because they're a bee inspector, it's not a given that they're good beekeepers. That advice sounds rubbish to me.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Interesting, I have 7 hives with solid floors, the warm way and have observed exactly that. In every one the first frame is still undrawn foundation. Even moving frames around and putting a drawn one there, they dont seem to use it. I wonder what puts them off?
It's because that frame is a heck of a lot colder than the others - the strange thing is, in a 'cold way' hive that area stays warmer!!
 

TomH 

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What happens with frames the cold way, presumably the leading edge of each frame near entrance is similarly unused?
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Ive never heard that actually said before , is that just experience and lore or ???
Observation
What happens with frames the cold way, presumably the leading edge of each frame near entrance is similarly unused?
No - they tend to use the whole thing
 

TomH 

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Interesting, thanks. Will have to try it out and see for myself next year. All mine are currently the warm way.
 

Erichalfbee 

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The only thing you'll find with warm way with a solid floor is that the first frame often gets ignored by the bees so is a total waste.
Do you find that with UFE?
I have one colony on a solid floor but the entrance slot is a third of the way back
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Do you find that with UFE?
I have one colony on a solid floor but the entrance slot is a third of the way back
I've never had frames warm way on an UFE so I couldn't comment although after observing the way they organise frames on cold way with an UFE, which is very similar to the way they do with a solid floor, I wouldn't be surprised although as the entrance opens between frames two and three, maybe not
 

oliver90owner 

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Interesting, thanks. Will have to try it out and see for myself next year. All mine are currently the warm way.
No need to ‘try it’ to ‘see for yourself’. JBM tells it just as it is. Believe him!

When using poly hives the bees will brood right up to the outer wall - yes right next to the poly wall. Believe me.
 

Little_bees 

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Interesting, thanks. Will have to try it out and see for myself next year. All mine are currently the warm way.
No need to ‘try it’ to ‘see for yourself’. JBM tells it just as it is. Believe him!

When using poly hives the bees will brood right up to the outer wall - yes right next to the poly wall. Believe me.
Perhaps Tom wants to verify some things for himself instead of just blindly following others. Otherwise how he is to know whose advice is good and whose is rubbish? Bee inspectors obviously can't be trusted blindly so how is a new beekeeper supposed to know who to believe??

Re brooding up to outer walls, that's not just a prerogative of poly hive owners. My bees often brood up to the outer wall on a south facing cedar box, warm way. Believe me. Those that don't, use that first frame for pollen.

I've never seen the first frame ignored but then I don't have solid floors (and am not really interested in trying that experiment).
 

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