Best Hive Type... For You

[JazzJPH]

I've had a read through some older threads on this forum and found some interesting discussions about hive types and why Nationals are the main in the UK, but since the last one I saw was quite a few years old, I'd like to ask the question again and see what experienced beekeepers think.

Q1. What are the top 3 most popular hives in the UK?

Q2. If you could start again, which type would you use?

Q3. What hive type would you recommend for a newbie?

I bought a cheapy National nuc box (£25) and some DN5 frames as I've been told that most UK beekeepers have National and therefore it's easier to buy/sell/swap frames and boxes.

Any other little nuggets of information you have on them would be appreciated too.

 

[Walrus]

1. Probably National > Smith > Commercial or Langstroth

2. Same as now - Langstroth

3. Easiest would be National

Langstroth is a really simple design and the most common hive outside the UK. I love the size; it just feels right to me. Pretty sure the bees don't care.

If you want to sell nucs one day life is going to be easier with Nationals, because it's what most people here want to buy.

I also prefer top bee space, which is not standard for Nationals although you can get it.

 

[B+.]

1. Probably National > Smith > Commercial or Langstroth

2. Same as now - Langstroth

3. Easiest would be National

Langstroth is a really simple design and the most common hive outside the UK. I love the size; it just feels right to me. Pretty sure the bees don't care.

If you want to sell nucs one day life is going to be easier with Nationals, because it's what most people here want to buy.

I also prefer top bee space, which is not standard for Nationals although you can get it.

I also think the UK may be recognising that prolific queens need more space. The 14*12 gives the same comb area as a Langstroth frame while still occupying the same footprint as a National and being compatible with it.

 

[Codford]

I also think the UK may be recognising that prolific queens need more space. The 14*12 gives the same comb area as a Langstroth frame while still occupying the same footprint as a National and being compatible with it.

D’accord.

 

[thedozzer]

from a lot of reading and all the bee keepers i know personally (not that many) the advice was to go for 14 x 12 poly, and apart from the frames being a bit heavy for my better half to lift when full of stores, it has got our colony through the winter without extra feed, and at 72,000 worker bee cells it does seem to be a good all round BB, simpler than double or brood and a half, and plenty of room for stores in winter. one of the advantages i was told is that it allows the bees to move the brood patch around the frames more. and allows the use on standard national suppers. we will be sticking with them for the next few colonies.

 

[Hivemaker.]

(1) National, Commercial, Langstroth.

(2) National, built to the correct spec, and using standard deeps.

(3) National.

 

[enrico]

Nugget, some National users use a top bee space and others use a bottom bee space. Look out if you buy used kit!.
E

 

[JazzJPH]

Interesting.

I'm trying to gauge if people would go National if it wasn't the most used in the UK. I originally fancied going National but now I'm swaying toward Langstroth.

Hmm...

 

[JazzJPH]

Nugget, some National users use a top bee space and others use a bottom bee space. Look out if you buy used kit!.
E

Thanks for that Enrico. I take it the wrong configuration would need modification(s)?

 

[enrico]

Most come with bottom bee space and that is how you make them up but I inherited some with top bee space. Obviously that meant brace comb between box's as the gap was too large. They came with no runners so by adding slightly modified runners I was able to lift the frames to the correct position.
E

 

[For want of a better word]

Interesting.

I'm trying to gauge if people would go National if it wasn't the most used in the UK. I originally fancied going National but now I'm swaying toward Langstroth.

Hmm...

Loads of Langstroth's configured hives around.... barely used as new beekeepers found that the honey tap idea on Flow's Hives was not much good in the UK... and bees needed a bit of management!!

Standard National gets my vote....

14 x 12 bodies full of brood and stores definitely need lifting assistance!¬

 

[madasafish]

I am all Langstroth. If you are making your own hives (as opposed to pack assembly), Langstroth is MUCH easier..

And you should look at capacity of all hive types.. which is revealing..

 

[JazzJPH]

Loads of Langstroth's configured hives around.... barely used as new beekeepers found that the honey tap idea on Flow's Hives was not much good in the UK... and bees needed a bit of management!!

Standard National gets my vote....

14 x 12 bodies full of brood and stores definitely need lifting assistance!¬

Hi Cheers - I'm still trying to understand a few terms. The 14 x 12 bodies - are they the "National Standard Deep"?

 

[JazzJPH]

I am all Langstroth. If you are making your own hives (as opposed to pack assembly), Langstroth is MUCH easier..

And you should look at capacity of all hive types.. which is revealing..

I remember seeing something that shows how much comb area you get in each type, which led me to believe Nationals weren't as space-efficient as others.

Also, the other reason I posted this thread is because I've seen some fancy plastic hives from China but they're Langstroth or Dadant. No Nationals or I likely would have gone for them if everyone around me is using National.

 

[Murox]

From Cushman website - National 14X12......." Just assume the top of the box is exactly the same as the national super or brood box, but 165mm deeper than the super and 89mm deeper than a standard brood box, making it 304mm deep. It's as simple as that......small discrepancies in the figures are caused by the B.S. specifications being in imperial sizes. The 14 x 12 has been in existence a long time............... It is known as the B.S deep box, where many beekeepers refer to the standard brood box as the "deep" when it isn't.............It could be argued that 14 x 12 are too large for non - prolific bees."

 

[Beefriendly]

I remember seeing something that shows how much comb area you get in each type, which led me to believe Nationals weren't as space-efficient as others.

A lot depends on what types of bees you are intending to keep. Many local mongrels will struggle to fill a National Brood box and would be lost in a Langstroth.
Many imported or bred queens need at least a langstroth for space as they are so fecund.
For my own sins I use double National Brood box for fecund queens (occasionally going to triple). It means I can manage the space to the colony size requirements and also when I need to perform artificial swarms I already have 2 brood boxes on site.
Currently most of mine have overwintered on single brood with a nadired super beneath. Some are already ready for their second brood box, some aren't.

If I had my time again and used the fecund queens that I purchase and also breed myself then I would probably go all Dadant as that seems to be their ideal sized box.

 

[ANMAW]

I've had a read through some older threads on this forum and found some interesting discussions about hive types and why Nationals are the main in the UK, but since the last one I saw was quite a few years old, I'd like to ask the question again and see what experienced beekeepers think.

Q1. What are the top 3 most popular hives in the UK?

Q2. If you could start again, which type would you use?

Q3. What hive type would you recommend for a newbie?

I bought a cheapy National nuc box (£25) and some DN5 frames as I've been told that most UK beekeepers have National and therefore it's easier to buy/sell/swap frames and boxes.

Any other little nuggets of information you have on them would be appreciated too.

1) National, Langstroth, Commercial

2) Langstroth

3) Personally, I would suggest to any newbie to consider avoiding a National (despite their availability) if they plan to keep a strain that needed brood and a half, or double brood. We went down the National poly/Buckfast route on the recommendation of our local association, and while double may be great for pros and experienced hoobyists as a newbie having to check 22 frames was a PITA, both for me and the bees, not to mention a lot more expensive. Only have 10/11 frames is so much simpler (and cheaper). I converted my broods to commercial (keeping the supers as nationals) and haven’t looked back.

 

[Beefriendly]

as a newbie having to check 22 frames was a PITA, both for me and the bees, not to mention a lot more expensive

Were you paid for your time inspecting?

I think you have been badly advised.
I run 22 frame double brood National...only when I see hints of swarm preparations do I inspect all 22.
i.e. double the brood for half the work.

 

[ANMAW]

Were you paid for your time inspecting?

No but 22 National frames and 2 brood boxes work out a lot more expensive than 10/11 Langstroth, Commercial or 14x12 frames and one BB.

I think you have been badly advised.
I run 22 frame double brood National...only when I see hints of swarm preparations do I inspect all 22.
i.e. double the brood for half the work.

Absolutely, you only need to check all frames when you see swarming prep. But you still have to do it when it happens. Which it will.

Also we are talking about newbie’s who are generally going to be less confident about identifying the signs of swarming.

Not sure what you mean about double the brood for half the work?

 

[Hivemaker.]

No but 22 National frames and 2 brood boxes work out a lot more expensive than 10/11 Langstroth, Commercial or 14x12 frames and one BB.

Apart from the quick routine swarm checks using double brood, about one minute per colony and a lot less disturbance, there is the advantage of being able to do an artificial swarm or reverse artificial swarm or demaree and the only extra bit of equipment needed is a crown/flight board, can even do it without that if need be.