Bees swarmed at 3.00pm today (London SE7) - advice needed

[LittleGreyRabbit]

Hello - I happened to be in the garden when my first hive of bees swarmed this afternoon and I stood and watched until it went quiet again.

There appear to be two swarms, actually. One is near the top of my neighbour's tree, overhanging some waste ground that is not accessible by members of the public, but one could not get at them to collect them without a "cherry picker". The other is on and around the front of the hive and underneath.

I had been preparing to do an A/S but they have beaten me to it.

I think I read on this forum that the bees might hang around for a day or two? I might be able to collect the ones that have remained on the hive? It is due to rain tomorrow so the bees on the tree are likely to be washed out.

Anyway, is that the best thing to do, to collect the ones on the hive - or will they go and join the bees on the tree in the next few hours?

Thanks for any advice.

Edited to add: I have a brood and a half.

 

[Andre cardona]

have a look on my blog or give me a call on 07958655962 i can help you strow it http://thecardonagoodlife.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/how-to-hive-swarm.html

 

[priono]

Hi Rabbit: if they come to N7 then i will tell you but i doubt it.

andre: tried to follow your blog but couldnt figure out how, have a look at mine: prionoo.blogspot.com and follow me. would love to hear more about your pigs.

 

[Midland Beek]

Well, those two posts were useful.

If they came out at exactly the same time it might be one swarm that has settled in two spots - not likely. What is more likely is that this is not a prime swarm but is in fact two second swarms or casts, each containing a virgin queen. This would mean that your original queen left with a swarm about a week ago.

With any swarm you try to collect and hive it. If these two 'swarms' coalesce, then it it a prime swarm.

After that you have to deal with a 'swarmed stock' or else it might swarm again.

 

[oliver90owner]

Bait hive comes to mind for the inaccessible swarm/part.

MB seems about spot on. That would be my initial guess, without this quote 'I had been preparing to do an A/S but they have beaten me to it.', so presumably you knew they were making swarm cells?

RAB

 

[Andre cardona]

Hi Rabbit: if they come to N7 then i will tell you but i doubt it.

andre: tried to follow your blog but couldnt figure out how, have a look at mine: prionoo.blogspot.com and follow me. would love to hear more about your pigs.

hay i have the some with your blog i cant see wher to follow ? look like we love the some things the good life best andre

 

[tonybloke]

well, I reckon there could be both a prime and a cast swarm issue at the same time, if the weather has been unsuitable for flying.

 

[LittleGreyRabbit]

Bait hive comes to mind for the inaccessible swarm/part.

I have now set up a bait hive. I was told to put some old frames in it but I don't have any old frames unless I take some out of the first hive - is that what I should do - with or without the bees and whatever else is on the frame? In the meantime, I have put new frames in it.

MB seems about spot on. That would be my initial guess, without this quote 'I had been preparing to do an A/S but they have beaten me to it.', so presumably you knew they were making swarm cells?

No, I didn't know, otherwise I would have done something about it earlier. I was reading up on doing an A/S because that looked as if it might be easier than dealing with a swarm. But I am a beginner, as I have said, and I was waiting on the answers to some queries from our instructor and/or others on the bee-keeping course before I started doing the A/S.

Edited to add: I think I've found the answer to the old frame on another thread. I should put a frame with both stores and brood on it in the bait hive, taken from the first hive. I will go out first thing tomorrow before it warms up and do that.

 

[LittleGreyRabbit]

If they came out at exactly the same time it might be one swarm that has settled in two spots - not likely. What is more likely is that this is not a prime swarm but is in fact two second swarms or casts, each containing a virgin queen. This would mean that your original queen left with a swarm about a week ago.

I managed to speak to a swarm collector this afternoon who said that the bees on the hive would go back inside the hive, and this seems to be what they have done.

The swarm on the tree is still there. It is rather a small swarm.

 

[RoofTops]

I have now set up a bait hive. I was told to put some old frames in it but I don't have any old frames unless I take some out of the first hive - is that what I should do?

Yes - shake off any bees and put a couple of frames in a spare hive if you have one, you could use the super of your brood and a half providing there is no brood in it. You need to do this quickly. The swarm in a tree could go tomorrow if it hasn't gone already.

The swarm on the ground in front of the hive does not sound right. The queen may be damaged and cannot fly.

On the basis you may have lost these swarms the thing now is to avoid any further swarms being lost.

As soon as you can go carefully through the old hive, doing this in the early morning or late afternoon to avoid the chance of any queen being on a mating flight. Leave one good open queen cell, assuming you can find one. Remove and discard any other queen cells carefully. It is possible you may have an emerged queen in there but I am not sure you can do much about that.

Then just stand back and wait 2 or 3 weeks and hope they recover.

Welcome to beekeeping. It can be very frustrating at times!

 

[richardbees]

doing this in the early morning or late afternoon to avoid the chance of any queen being on a mating flight.


....excellent advice and rarely mentioned.

 

[psafloyd]

Hello - I happened to be in the garden when my first hive of bees swarmed this afternoon and I stood and watched until it went quiet again.

Edited to add: I have a brood and a half.

I hope mine haven't. Was going to go and look at them but thought there was sun and it was warm, there were storm clouds right overhead.

 

[Polyanwood]

Hello Little Grey Rabbit. have you joined a beekeeping association? You will get help and advice. If you are lucky you might also get a bee buddy to be there when you go through your hives, and you can be there when he/she inspects too. If you do a course you will also get mentored for a year. london Beekeepers Association or bromley beekeepers are closest to you. london beekeepers association have a facebook page and also a website. I'm one of them because they have a lot of members in south london.
You don't have to struggle on your own.

 

[Midland Beek]

The swarm on the tree is still there. It is rather a small swarm.

Small swarms are indicators of second swarms or casts, ie. swarms that contain newly emerged virgin queens.

 

[Skyhook]

The swarm on the ground in front of the hive does not sound right. The queen may be damaged and cannot fly.

Or clipped?

.

 

[newportbuzz]

have you tried a pillow case duct taped to a pole. its suprising what you can get out of a tree that way. rember to hold the pillow case open with something like a coat hanger bent into a circle.
they will weigh about 1-3kg so they do land with a bit of a thump and can take you by suprise 30ft below while balancing your pole.

 

[LittleGreyRabbit]

Destroyed 38 swarm cells!!!!

Yes - shake off any bees and put a couple of frames in a spare hive if you have one, you could use the super of your brood and a half providing there is no brood in it. You need to do this quickly.

I have a new hive and put new frames in it with one drawn frame "borrowed" from the half-brood box because I am told that it is more attractive to bees than just the wax on the frames.

The swarm on the ground in front of the hive does not sound right. The queen may be damaged and cannot fly.

They had all gone by the end of yesterday afternoon, and I assume they went back into the hive. When I inspected the hive today, it still seemed to contain millions of bees. In fact, if I hadn't witnessed the swarm, I would never have guessed that it had happened.

As soon as you can go carefully through the old hive, doing this in the early morning or late afternoon to avoid the chance of any queen being on a mating flight. Leave one good open queen cell, assuming you can find one. Remove and discard any other queen cells carefully. It is possible you may have an emerged queen in there but I am not sure you can do much about that.

This afternoon I found and destroyed 38 swarm cells .... All but three of them were in my half-brood box. Most of them had only larvae or goo inside. But one of the first I cut off had been opened and resealed ("tear here" appearance on the cap). Inside was a queen bee waiting to go. I threw her in the garden pond, being afraid that if I just dropped her on the ground the bees might come out to find her.

I have to admit, my legs turned to jelly when I lifted up the first frame and saw that it had about 8 swarm cells on it. So I went through all the half-brood box and some of the brood box. I have to go back and finish inspecting the brood box, as I got too frazzled to complete it.

Meanwhile the swarm is still (as at 6.10pm) on the tree.

 

[LittleGreyRabbit]

Hello Little Grey Rabbit. have you joined a beekeeping association? You will get help and advice. If you are lucky you might also get a bee buddy to be there when you go through your hives, and you can be there when he/she inspects too. If you do a course you will also get mentored for a year. london Beekeepers Association or bromley beekeepers are closest to you. london beekeepers association have a facebook page and also a website. I'm one of them because they have a lot of members in south london.
You don't have to struggle on your own.

Yes, I am on the current Co-op sponsored course based at Camley Street in North London. But all the people on the course are spread around London. I haven't yet got around to joining a bee-keeping association - we all got our bees very late last year, and I wanted to see if my colony would get through the winter. Which it has, very well, perhaps a bit too well ...

 

[LittleGreyRabbit]

have you tried a pillow case duct taped to a pole. its suprising what you can get out of a tree that way. rember to hold the pillow case open with something like a coat hanger bent into a circle.
they will weigh about 1-3kg so they do land with a bit of a thump and can take you by suprise 30ft below while balancing your pole.

That's an interesting suggestion. They are too high up at the moment even for that, unless I can find a 30ft pole. The tree is actually a privet hedge that has been allowed to do its own thing for the last 30 years. I doubt that the branches would bear the weight of anyone trying to climb it.

I have sent a photo to a swarm collector to see if he thinks he can reach it. The branch with the swarm on it overhangs a piece of wasteland that is fenced off because privately owned by someone who thought he could get planning permission to build on it (but can't because no emergency access). Ie one cannot stand underneath the swarm.

 

[LittleGreyRabbit]

Or clipped?

.

I didn't clip her. Didn't know enough about bee-keeping to ask, when I got her last summer, if she was clipped.