Bees in an awkward place?

[*ZhG*StGeorge]

Hi, not posted on the forum for awhile but have a small problem that I need a little advice on and I know this is the place to get the help.

A friend, local to me, has a problem with a nest. They are in the roof area over the front of his downstairs frontroom window. There is no access on the inside of the house; if you can imagine an area in the shape of a 3 x 4 x 5 triangle covered with tiles on the outside, listed building too, to make it a little more difficult!!

They need to be moved (they attack him when he mows the front lawn), my problem is how to extricate them from there.

My own thought are to drill a small hole on the inside and smoke them and have a bait hive outside to draw them in. Is that an idea that would work?

Thanks for your help, in advance.

As an aside, both my hives have bee activity so have survived the winter so far and I am over the moon. As it was warm today I gave them some sugar, fingers crossed.

Hope you all have the same experience in this new year.

Regards

Alan

 

[VEG]

You should remove the wax as well as it can melt (if we have a summer) as the bees tend to keep a constant temperature in the nest. If you post some pictures of the actual roof we may be able to suggest how to do it. Just because the house is listed doesn't mean the roof cant be taken apart and put back as it was.

 

[Sir Quej]

I saw a video once where a guy had the same problem as you (bees in a place that couldnt be dismantled). What he did was block the entrance to the nest by attaching a tunnel that led from the nest entrance straight into the back of a nuc box that had drawn comb in it. The bees had to pass through the nuc with drawn comb to either leave or enter the nest and over the space of a day or two, they basically moved into the nuc because it was closer to the new outside entrance (which was the nuc entrance).

Might be worth a punt.

 

[enrico]

I saw a video once where a guy had the same problem as you (bees in a place that couldnt be dismantled). What he did was block the entrance to the nest by attaching a tunnel that led from the nest entrance straight into the back of a nuc box that had drawn comb in it. The bees had to pass through the nuc with drawn comb to either leave or enter the nest and over the space of a day or two, they basically moved into the nuc because it was closer to the new outside entrance (which was the nuc entrance).

Might be worth a punt.

I have done that but there must only be one exit into the roof!

 

[itma]

The principal problem, IMHO, is not capturing bees - but preventing re-occupation of the nest.


I doubt you'll ever lure the queen out - until she tries to swarm. And at that point, she leaves a very well-stocked nest which even if you were to kill off all remaining bees would still be a prime site for re-colonisation.

I fear that a bit of dismantling is going to be needed to clear out the nest - followed by rebuilding with careful sealing.

If the bees can be salvaged, so much the better.
But capturing flying bees is not going to fix the problem.

March is probably prime time for doing a cutout as the number of bees and the quantity of stores should both be around their minimum, (nevermind that the bees value/usefulness is coincidentally probably at a maximum).
Weather might not be too bad as well ... !

 

[beeno]

Hi ZhGSt. George,
I am with itma on this one when it comes to the trap out. There is no problem with taking tiles of the roof and clearing the roof void of bees and wax. What you should do is to be sure that you have some matching roof tiles available in case of breakage even if you have not bought them. If it is felted, which I doubt. then you have to cut through the felt and perhaps a few battens to get access. Hoovering debris springs to mind. Put a bait hive out to capture any bees in the air, but make sure that they cannot get into roof void again. This is not a difficult DIY job I could do it!

 

[*ZhG*StGeorge]

Some pics

Thanks for your comments so far

Alan

 

[itma]

Fortunately 'Tenterden Roofing' are specialists in Kent Peg tiles and working on listed buildings.

Not a big job, but having taken off the tiles and removed the bees+comb, I am certain that the house would benefit from having some insulation in the void space and good bee-proof Tyvek felting laid before re-tiling to restore the traditional appearance.
Well worth doing it properly!

The bees look to have drawn attention to a job that is in any case worthwhile.

 

[Chris Luck]

I saw a video once where a guy had the same problem as you (bees in a place that couldnt be dismantled). What he did was block the entrance to the nest by attaching a tunnel that led from the nest entrance straight into the back of a nuc box that had drawn comb in it. The bees had to pass through the nuc with drawn comb to either leave or enter the nest and over the space of a day or two, they basically moved into the nuc because it was closer to the new outside entrance (which was the nuc entrance).

Might be worth a punt.

A video? A couple of days? The Internet.

Experience will tell that a couple of months and it may work, otherwise it's just some bees in the box and no Queen.

Can't someone that actually knows about these matters write a "sticky' post, it isn't a matter of opinion.

You have to get at the entire colony structure and remove all the comb and get the Queen out and "hived". Plenty of people on here have done this.

Chris

 

[For want of a better word]

listed building too, to make it a little more difficult!!


Had similar in a Glebe house in Sussex..... Grade 2 Listed.... at least the Diocese could claim back the VAT

Replacements for the broken clay peg tiles came from a "Privvy" that had to be demolished.... Building Regs and Planning were all over the site like a rash!

Incidentally a huge wasp nest ( unoccupied) was also in the same roof space!

Did take photos, but this was in the day of 35mm film so can not post up... even if I could find them !!!


Best of Luck with that one!

 

[Sir Quej]

A video? A couple of days? The Internet.

Experience will tell that a couple of months and it may work, otherwise it's just some bees in the box and no Queen.

Can't someone that actually knows about these matters write a "sticky' post, it isn't a matter of opinion.

You have to get at the entire colony structure and remove all the comb and get the Queen out and "hived". Plenty of people on here have done this.

Chris

I wasnt giving an opinion Chris (I'm not experienced enough to do that). I was simply responding to a "Forum" post telling him about something I saw a while ago. I didnt at any time say this was a solution to all his problems. unless of course I did and just forgot about that part of my post. Feel free to quote it if you can find it.

Whats wrong with the intenet as a source of info? Isnt that exactly what THIS FORUM is?

And for your info, the queen WAS in the box when he removed it on the video. Might have just been luck, might not. As I said, I'm not experienced enough to make a judgement.

 

[itma]

...
Whats wrong with the intenet as a source of info? Isnt that exactly what THIS FORUM is?

And for your info, the queen WAS in the box when he removed it on the video. Might have just been luck, might not. As I said, I'm not experienced enough to make a judgement.

Two things --

- the Queen and nurse bees will not ordinarily leave the brood of their own accord (OK, apart from swarming)

- when someone posts something daft, incomplete or misleading on the forum, it is generally pounced upon by others (usually lots of them), so that anyone bothered or interested enough to read the responses can judge how 'unorthodox' any particular advice might be.
That is rarely so on a blog-type site, where the advisor has editorial control (and a veto) on what comments remain against his own personal view.
*BIG* difference.

 

[beeno]

Hi again.
Roof definitely needs doing before it rots the window frame as well as the bit of timber that the first row of double tiles rest on! The roof has been patched before by the look of the tiles. If you match the tiles perfectly who is to know that it has been done! Also, if you had water come in the house insurance would not cover you with the state of those tiles! As for the bees, I would wait for warm weather and do a cut out better chance of saving the colony.

 

[Chris Luck]

What is wrong with the internet and indeed many books, newspaper articles etc. is that they are compiled by any old Tom, Dick or Harry that frequently collects the information from some other sources compiled by some other Tom, Dick or Harry without any of them actually having either any or insufficient personal experience....

....and unfortunately it can lead people right up the garden path ending up in a worse situation than they started with...

Sorry if it offends, I really am, but I and no doubt others have to try and explain this when someone telephones in with a colony in their house, roof space, wall, whatever and they have read or been told it's just a simple matter of putting a box outside or something similar.

The entire colony structure needs to be exposed for successful removal or alternatively the colony needs to be destroyed.

I hope this helps the original poster with their question.

Chris

 

[*ZhG*StGeorge]

Sorry to have caused so much bad feeling.

I now remember why I have not posted for awhile now.

When they said, if you ask two bee keepers what their opinion was, they said there would be at least three if not more opinions. What I didn't expect was all the back biting and criticism of others that went with it.

I shall refrain from posting in future as it causes too much acrimony.

Thanks to everyone who contributed positively.

Alan

 

[starflex]

It is worth contacting the local council planning department and having a chat with the conservation officer.

A site visit, with tea and biscuits, would be even better. This will clear up any problems with the listed status (your written, approved action plan), and this will be necessary before your roofer will take on the job.

 

[Madge]

...What he did was block the entrance to the nest by attaching a tunnel that led from the nest entrance straight into the back of a nuc box that had drawn comb in it. ... and over the space of a day or two, they basically moved into the nuc ...

I have done that but there must only be one exit into the roof!

... A couple of days? ... Experience will tell that a couple of months and it may work....

Yes, more like a month or six weeks - and even then the queen might not be in the box. I have no experience, but read about this method and attach a photo should it be of help.

The point is that the foragers leaving their old hive must pass through the new hive placed beside the wall, but can't find their way back into their old hive through the funnel-shaped net (not a tunnel). Once they've created a new queen in the new hive (they must have been given eggs or a queen cell - obviously!), the funnel can be removed and the theory is that the bees in the new hive will then start to rob their old nest and kill the old queen.

From St George's photo it seems to me that the bees have quite a large entrance area into their rooftop hive - so the funnel's end may have to be quite wide. (Placing a hive next to that roof might be a huge problem as well.)

ITMA's suggestion to use the opportunity to renovate the roof might be preferable.

 

[Luminos]

Sorry to have caused so much bad feeling.

I now remember why I have not posted for awhile now.

When they said, if you ask two bee keepers what their opinion was, they said there would be at least three if not more opinions. What I didn't expect was all the back biting and criticism of others that went with it.

I shall refrain from posting in future as it causes too much acrimony.

Thanks to everyone who contributed positively.

Alan

Don't stop posting, ZSG - it was an interesting post and I'm sure other newbies like me learn a lot from such posts.

 

[itma]

My own thought are to drill a small hole on the inside and smoke them and have a bait hive outside to draw them in. Is that an idea that would work?

Sadly, no.

The entire colony structure needs to be exposed for successful removal or alternatively the colony needs to be destroyed.

If the destruction option is chosen, the nest needs to be sealed up to prevent re-colonisation.
We all know that old comb is an excellent swarm bait.

From St George's photo it seems to me that the bees have quite a large entrance area into their rooftop hive - so the funnel's end may have to be quite wide. (Placing a hive next to that roof might be a huge problem as well.)

ITMA's suggestion to use the opportunity to renovate the roof might be preferable.

I'd bet real money (£1) that any remaining felt under those tiles is going to be in tatters.
That makes every gap between tiles a potential alternative entrance/exit needing to be
1 - blocked before the job can be considered finished
2 - blocked or included in the funnel to the 'trap'
Just looking at the state of the roof should explain why trapping and sealing ain't ever going to work. It is an entirely different problem to that illustrated in Madge's photo.

The roof looks to be in serious need of renovation.
If the house insurance covers bee 'infestation' (many do), they should cough up a significant proportion of the cost of the work - because of the nuisance caused by the bees presence. Even though they wouldn't pay a penny towards the work if the bees were not there!

StG is in Tenterden. The small "Tenterden Roofing" firm are *the* specialists in Kent Peg tiles (and are used to dealing with Listed Building Consents). Ask them for an opinion and quote. Get help if needed from other beeks for dealing with the actual bees and their nest.
Declaration of Interest - Tenterden Roofing did some Kent Peg roofing for me a few years back. Excellently. Haven't heard from them since. No other connection.

"Trapping out" looks like a complete non-starter in this situation.