Bees facing eviction! Help

[dickndoris]

Will keep this brief and maybe someone might be able to help?

Have been keeping bees now for 3 years at the same spot. It is a very sheltered piece of land at the side of my house. I have been tending this land for 15+ years in varying degrees. It is a flood plain and is owned by a local building firm who because of the nature of the land can not get permission to build on it as it really does flood.
The bees are kept behind a hedge which is around 30' tall and maybe 10-20' deep. You can just see some hives if you know what to look at. It is open to the south with a small maybe 4' hedge and meadow/grass land. Dog walkers walk along a path, not a right of way on the otherside of the 30' hedge running parallel to it. The field is maybe 5 acres at a wild guess and runs down to the river.
So, a as in 1 dog walker complained to the builder who in turn has said his firm is liable to 3rd party insurance claim so move the bees in 7 days or else they will do it and send me the bill. They have said they can issue a licence to keep bees there but at a cost of £500 per 6 months! I have tried to explain I have 3rd party insurance through BBKA but it seems not to sink in. All neighbours are great ref bees. Just one dog walker that maybe passes twice a day for 60 seconds! I don't know who.......yet......

So, does anyone have advice on what he means by a licence?
Is £10 million enough cover?
Can they demand the bees are moved in 7 days?
My veg and fruit trees were not mentioned.
Does looking after or tending a piece of land for so long stand me in a good legal position?

 

[itma]

If you are keeping bees on someone else's land, then of course they can tell you to remove them or charge you rent (for "a license") to keep them there.


On the other hand, you could potentially (it depends) claim that having squatted on the land unchallenged for 15 years, it is now yours by virtue of "Adverse Possession".
If you fancy trying that one on, it will definitely cost you legal bills, so start by asking a lawyer. He will probably start by asking if you have fenced off your claim. Then you have to see if it is registered or unregistered ... I doubt there is much chance of success.

Otherwise, get off his land.
Seven days is reasonable notice to quit, since you had no permission to be there in the first place.

Oh and trees, being "attached to the land" are the landowner's.
Best not to mention them {except to the lawyer - they and the veg are legally relevant, if you have claim}, and return quietly for the harvest.

 

[Luminos]

I would start by making an appointment at your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

[SimonB]

On the other hand, you could potentially (it depends) claim that having squatted on the land unchallenged for 15 years, it is now yours by virtue of "Adverse Possession".

OP's right to be registered as proprietor was gained after 13 October 2003 and thus LRA 2002 applies and for registered land the owner is entitled to oppose when the application is made at the 10 year term

See http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-4

 

[itma]

Then you have to see if it is registered or unregistered ...

OP's right to be registered as proprietor was gained after 13 October 2003 and thus LRA 2002 applies and for registered land the owner is entitled to oppose when the application is made at the 10 year term

See http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-4

That's along the lines I was thinking, but might he still have a case if it happened to be unregistered?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Will keep this brief and maybe someone might be able to help?

Have been keeping bees now for 3 years at the same spot. It is a very sheltered piece of land at the side of my house. I have been tending this land for 15+ years in varying degrees. It is a flood plain and is owned by a local building firm who because of the nature of the land can not get permission to build on it as it really does flood.
The bees are kept behind a hedge which is around 30' tall and maybe 10-20' deep. You can just see some hives if you know what to look at. It is open to the south with a small maybe 4' hedge and meadow/grass land. Dog walkers walk along a path, not a right of way on the otherside of the 30' hedge running parallel to it. The field is maybe 5 acres at a wild guess and runs down to the river.
So, a as in 1 dog walker complained to the builder who in turn has said his firm is liable to 3rd party insurance claim so move the bees in 7 days or else they will do it and send me the bill. They have said they can issue a licence to keep bees there but at a cost of £500 per 6 months! I have tried to explain I have 3rd party insurance through BBKA but it seems not to sink in. All neighbours are great ref bees. Just one dog walker that maybe passes twice a day for 60 seconds! I don't know who.......yet......

So, does anyone have advice on what he means by a licence?
Is £10 million enough cover?
Can they demand the bees are moved in 7 days?
My veg and fruit trees were not mentioned.
Does looking after or tending a piece of land for so long stand me in a good legal position?

Notwithstanding the legal ramifications and your adverse posession claim could your local beekeepers association house the hives if they have an association apiary? Failing that BABKA have an apiary not many miles from York. PM me for contact details if you want to explore this idea.

 

[thorn]

Land law is not my thing, so I'll refer you to the previous posts.

But as to the Third Party liability, a claimant would have to show the person claimed against was negligent. Would the builder be negligent if he allows your bees to remain there, and a passing dog walker gets stung? We need to consider the liability of any land owner who allows a dangerous thing to remain on his premises. We have to consider foreseeability. Are bees a "dangerous thing" per se? We all know that they can be protective of their hive, or turn nasty for no apparent reason. But I have found no successful claim against a beekeeper by someone stung by his bees, and as for the landowner's potential liability, this is even more remote.

As to the level of cover, in the less than likely event of a successful claim, a simple sting or two would attract the most minimal amount of damages. If the stings were fatal, then depending on various factors, damages could be anything from funeral expenses upward, though for the them to approach even £1,000,000 the deceased would have to be a very high earner with a dependant wife and young children. £10,000,000 is beyond ludicrous.

In fine, would I take on the dog walker's case against either you or the builder if he were stung? Only if the injury was considerable, and probably then only for the publicity in the local rag. Unless damages for the injury were likely to be in excess of £1,000, it would be a "small claim" (in the Minister of Justice's (sic) mind, £,10,000 is a small amount for most claims, but £1,000 for accident claims), and the successful claimant wouldn't get his legal costs paid by the other side in a small claims case. And even if the injury was severe enough to break the £1,000 pound barrier, the case is most likely a loser. I need at least a 65% chance of success if I'm to take something on on a no-win, no-fee agreement.

I suspect the builder thinks he has found a way to get a little money out of otherwise unprofitable land.

As previous posts have stated, you're a trepasser. You have no rights, unless you can claim adverse possession. To get the definitive answer on that, go to your local solicitor. He'll give you more knowledgable advice than a CAB worker. But he will charge you.

 

[thorn]

Or why not see if you can buy the land. The builder may be pleased to get £2-3,000 for it, and it would add value to your home.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Will keep this brief and maybe someone might be able to help?

Have been keeping bees now for 3 years at the same spot. It is a very sheltered piece of land at the side of my house. I have been tending this land for 15+ years in varying degrees. It is a flood plain and is owned by a local building firm who because of the nature of the land can not get permission to build on it as it really does flood.
The bees are kept behind a hedge which is around 30' tall and maybe 10-20' deep. You can just see some hives if you know what to look at. It is open to the south with a small maybe 4' hedge and meadow/grass land. Dog walkers walk along a path, not a right of way on the otherside of the 30' hedge running parallel to it. The field is maybe 5 acres at a wild guess and runs down to the river.
So, a as in 1 dog walker complained to the builder who in turn has said his firm is liable to 3rd party insurance claim so move the bees in 7 days or else they will do it and send me the bill. They have said they can issue a licence to keep bees there but at a cost of £500 per 6 months! I have tried to explain I have 3rd party insurance through BBKA but it seems not to sink in. All neighbours are great ref bees. Just one dog walker that maybe passes twice a day for 60 seconds! I don't know who.......yet......

So, does anyone have advice on what he means by a licence?
Is £10 million enough cover?
Can they demand the bees are moved in 7 days?
My veg and fruit trees were not mentioned.
Does looking after or tending a piece of land for so long stand me in a good legal position?

make them a counter offer

one jar of honey per hive, 28 days notice to move, tenacy at will by exchange of letter and that you will insurnce the 3rd party risk

print off the insurance certifiacate on the BBKA web site (memeber area) by tower insurers and attach to your offer

 

[yeogi75]

good advice from thorn,if you don't get anywhere and the land owner is adamant you remove your hives, just mention what if you get bit by the dog owners dog he will be responsible has he got insurance for that,see what that brings

 

[psafloyd]

You can surely negotiate for a longer period to reposition, if only an extra week. Say you will abide with their original demand provided if they must move them before a reasonable time, they take on all risk of having them moved, including finding a suitable individual to move them, notifying the regional bee inspector, and ensure their own third party insurance cover any negligence on the part of their agent.

If they're bluffing, you'll get more time. They won't know all that isn't necessary, but might not want the hassle if you say they could be spreading disease by moving the hives that quickly.

 

 

[dickndoris]

Thanks all for all the replies. They are all food for thought indeed. I have a few ideas that some have already mentioned so we will see what the outcome maybe. Feeling positive. Will update on progression as an when.
Cheers
R

 

[richardbees]

"Saving our bees" is very newsworthy at the moment...try your local newspaper?