Bees dead in the hive, not sure how

[john1]

Hi,
One of my friends recently opened his hives. He saw the bees dead. Please see the attached images.
There was enough food including a piece of bee fondant left in the hive and also good insulation.
Not sure how it happened. Other hives are ok.
Please see the images.
Thanks

 

[enrico]

That's not many bees on the floor. Are they dead in the frames, I can't see from the photo? If that is all the dead bees then it was too few bees for the winter. If that is just a few on the floor then it could be those that have died over winter but not been cleared for whatever reason. Bit more info please!

 

[Ely]

Tiny colony that dwindled and unable to keep up the temperature.

 

[john1]

Thank you very much,
He said he had more bees than on the floor. I believe it is still a tiny colony.
I hope he will not be able to claim any insurance for loses like this.
Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I hope he will not be able to claim any insurance for loses like this.

doubt he'd be able to claim anything, unless it's BDI after an NBU foulbrood destruction.

Tell us a bit about the colony's history
How strong were they going into winter?
Queen's age?
When were they treated for varroa, and with what?

 

[john1]

It was nearly a year old hive - a new hive he created in last May/June.
Queen was raised around the same time.
He treated the hive for Varroa using Apivar before the winter.

 

[steve1958]

It looks like the outer frame is undrawn foundation?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It was nearly a year old hive - a new hive he created in last May/June.
Queen was raised around the same time.
He treated the hive for Varroa using Apivar before the winter.

the middle frames look pretty mouldy to me, and as Steve says, they haven't drawn out the last frame, I reckon a badly mated queen or a plain dud leading to winter dwindle.

 

[john1]

I agree, it may be one of those reasons.
So, I think he will not get any insurance as it is not a disease. Probably, he has to watch the hive closely what is happening inside before the winter.

 

[Ian123]

I agree, it may be one of those reasons.
So, I think he will not get any insurance as it is not a disease. Probably, he has to watch the hive closely what is happening inside before the winter.

You won’t get any insurance for a simple winter dead out, that’s not what it covers or intended for.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So, I think he will not get any insurance as it is not a disease

what insurance do you think he has?
The BDI (Bee Destruction Insurance) doesn't pay out on any dead bees, diseased or not, but only an arbitrary amount on any equipment that the Bee Inspector deems has to be destroyed - and only on detection of foulbrood (at the moment) I don't know of any underwriter who will cover either bees or equipment unless you want to pay through the nose for it.

 

[steve1958]

I Believe It's not the bees that are insured, just any infected equipment that the Bee Inspector destroys

 

[john1]

what insurance do you think he has?
The BDI (Bee Destruction Insurance) doesn't pay out on any dead bees, diseased or not, but only an arbitrary amount on any equipment that the Bee Inspector deems has to be destroyed - and only on detection of foulbrood (at the moment) I don't know of any underwriter who will cover either bees or equipment unless you want to pay through the nose for it.

He is a member of BBKA. So, he thought he would be covered by the insurance.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

He is a member of BBKA. So, he thought he would be covered by the insurance.

he was wrong - it doesn't cover the bees at all, just the equipment and only in the situation I explained - if it has to be destroyed on orders of the RBI after testing positive for foulbrood.

 

[rdartington]

the middle frames look pretty mouldy to me, and as Steve says, they haven't drawn out the last frame, I reckon a badly mated queen or a plain dud leading to winter dwindle.

There have been heavy losses in north Hertfordshire - I lost just over 50%, thr local NBU Seasonal Bee Inspector lost 50%, the chair of the local BBKA association has lost 25%. The Bee Inspector, who is also a queen breeder, has no clear explanation.
Every col shows pretty much the same, plenty of sealed stores, thick carpet of bees on the hive floor, palm-sized patch of frozen bees on one or two frames, little or no pollen in frames. Little or no sign of Nosema.
So, could be queen failure but why so many? Could be a virus, perhaps a new one. But we also had an exceptional ivy crop - could the two be linked?
My own theory (unproven) is: queens come back into lay in late Aug/early Sep , those bees emerge in late Sep/Oct and feed up on pollen to enlarge their fat bodies, ie become the ‘winter bees’ that can live 6 months rather than normal 6 weeks. The winter bees are expected to rest in the hive and not go foraging. But this warm autumn could have induced the winter bees to forage the ivy and exhaust themselves, dying out in early Jan. If this is true, next autumn I will close the hives so they cannot forage the ivy to excess. But I need to know.
can anyone else associate a heavy ivy crop with excess colony deaths?


.

 

[rdartington]

There have been heavy losses in north Hertfordshire - I lost just over 50%, thr local NBU Seasonal Bee Inspector lost 50%, the chair of the local BBKA association has lost 25%. The Bee Inspector, who is also a queen breeder, has no clear explanation.
Every col shows pretty much the same, plenty of sealed stores, thick carpet of bees on the hive floor, palm-sized patch of frozen bees on one or two frames, little or no pollen in frames. Little or no sign of Nosema.
So, could be queen failure but why so many? Could be a virus, perhaps a new one. But we also had an exceptional ivy crop - could the two be linked?
My own theory (unproven) is: queens come back into lay in late Aug/early Sep , those bees emerge in late Sep/Oct and feed up on pollen to enlarge their fat bodies, ie become the ‘winter bees’ that can live 6 months rather than normal 6 weeks. The winter bees are expected to rest in the hive and not go foraging. But this warm autumn could have induced the winter bees to forage the ivy and exhaust themselves, dying out in early Jan. If this is true, next autumn I will close the hives so they cannot forage the ivy to excess. But I need to know.
can anyone else associate a heavy ivy crop with excess colony deaths?


.

Here is typical die out. Half the summer brood area is still covered by stores. No pollen arch. Frame is home-made, 11x18 inches (goes in ordinary extractor).

 

[Erichalfbee]

CBPV?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

so why isn't it happening all over the country? we all had the same 'unprecedented' autumn weather - which was not really any great difference to any other year. I'm hearing low colony losses in general.
I think this constant obsessing about winter bees is a new phenomenon and explains very little, just an excuse to explain away a handful of apiary disasters and put the blame on a chimera rather than investigate a few isolated incidents.

 

[pargyle]

Initial reports from my local area is that winter losses have been higher than usual .. one small scale beefarmer reporting 25% loss and several hobbyist reporting total loss. It will be interesting to see what the NBU Survey throws up.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Lots of drones in that pile of dead bees...