Beekeeping reflections

[Swn58]

I steal nothing.


I agree. We breed these bees. They would not exist in the way they do without us! We bred them for the products they make. It's a bit like the horse situation that I have come across a few times. Some people think it is cruel to 'enslave' horses by riding them and getting them to pull things. What they don't realise is that the horses they are talking about, only exist, because humans have been breeding them for thousands of years!

 

[pargyle]

Here on the forum. If you report a post they will see it. Every post has a history that can be seen too.

Oh my ... I hope the spelling and grammar police don't see some of my first auto corrected drafts !!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh my ... I hope the spelling and grammar police don't see some of my first auto corrected drafts !!

Ha ha
Don’t worry Philip, there aren’t any.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ha ha
Don’t worry Philip, there aren’t any.

Not many anyway

 

[beeker]

Now you've all got me thinking ..... Doing my research this winter before I even think about acquiring any bees. And thinking out my shopping list to start me off. I don't anticipate having a great number of hives, but starting with two, and a nuc or two for contingency seems to be the minimum, [though I did say that about dogs, and I'm never less than two now, and sometimes far more] Was originally drawn to nationals, the usual reasons, that's what everyone has, your local group will have them, easier to swap with others, buy etc, Then I thought about, and was swaying towards 14x12 as in my head it made some sort of sense, but what do I know ! and there's a fair mixed reaction to them on this thread, so a bit marmitey.
Then a saw a few of those who's posts make real sense to me, saying they would start Langstroth over again. Something I hadn't even considered, but on looking I can see why.
Now even more confused that ever. . Really want to start on the format I'm going to continue on, maybe this is a separate thread to ask . Off to research again, but welcome any sage advice.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Now you've all got me thinking ..... Doing my research this winter before I even think about acquiring any bees. And thinking out my shopping list to start me off. I don't anticipate having a great number of hives, but starting with two, and a nuc or two for contingency seems to be the minimum, [though I did say that about dogs, and I'm never less than two now, and sometimes far more] Was originally drawn to nationals, the usual reasons, that's what everyone has, your local group will have them, easier to swap with others, buy etc, Then I thought about, and was swaying towards 14x12 as in my head it made some sort of sense, but what do I know ! and there's a fair mixed reaction to them on this thread, so a bit marmitey.
Then a saw a few of those who's posts make real sense to me, saying they would start Langstroth over again. Something I hadn't even considered, but on looking I can see why.
Now even more confused that ever. . Really want to start on the format I'm going to continue on, maybe this is a separate thread to ask . Off to research again, but welcome any sage advice.

Have you thought about bee type?.... Ie.. Carnica, buckfast, locals, amms etc... Because that could also maybe dictate what box you have.

 

[user 819]

National was my choice simply for the longer lug with my butter fingers, though tbh by fingers have been worked hard during my 30+ years in the building trades.

 

[rolande]

Then a saw a few of those who's posts make real sense to me, saying they would start Langstroth over again.

the commercial hive may be worth looking at. Its a good box sharing similar capacity, single wall construction/short lugs with the langstroth and almost the same footprint with the national (fully interchangeable) allowing you to use bs supers if you wish -although the commercial super is better!

 

[GuyNir]

Now you've all got me thinking ..... Doing my research this winter before I even think about acquiring any bees. And thinking out my shopping list to start me off. I don't anticipate having a great number of hives, but starting with two, and a nuc or two for contingency seems to be the minimum, [though I did say that about dogs, and I'm never less than two now, and sometimes far more] Was originally drawn to nationals, the usual reasons, that's what everyone has, your local group will have them, easier to swap with others, buy etc, Then I thought about, and was swaying towards 14x12 as in my head it made some sort of sense, but what do I know ! and there's a fair mixed reaction to them on this thread, so a bit marmitey.
Then a saw a few of those who's posts make real sense to me, saying they would start Langstroth over again. Something I hadn't even considered, but on looking I can see why.
Now even more confused that ever. . Really want to start on the format I'm going to continue on, maybe this is a separate thread to ask . Off to research again, but welcome any sage advice.

You’ll be even more confused going forward. 5 beeks will have 10 different views

 

[Murox]

From the viewpoint that bees generally do better on narrower deeper frames, then a box of commercial brood frames at 16 x 10"inches might have a minimal advantage over Langstroth. They are of course very heavy to move around. Interchangeability of whatever system you choose has to be a significant factor as well as what everyone else in your area uses.
I have noticed in my own looking around that poly langstroth are often offered at a far more reasonable price than nationals.

 

[madasafish]

Any system which requires you to work with two different sizes of brood box is an abomination which ignores the first rule of all work: simplify and reduce work. So a National brood box plus a super - known as brood and a half should be instantly discarded. And the advocates of it ignored

If you are going to aim for honey, then a well run big hive will beat a well run small one. The more bees in summer the better. Honey surpluses are gained by lots of bees. So small boxes or bees that will only fill a small box should be discarded. If you want to keep bees and get 10-20lbs of honey a year ignore this.

If you want to save money and make your own hives, Langstroth are MUCH - repeat much - easier to make than Nationals which were like a camel - designed by a committee.. Langstroth are not by accident the world's hive of choice, and the National Hive confined to the UK only . (The rest of the world has more sense )


I see you live in Shropshire : I recommend poly hives for colder climates (always check posters' locations when talking about this).. those in the balmy South don't know what winter means
Insulated hives keep bees warmer, less stressed and use fewer stores. (Factual)


Choice of bees: a beginner wants calm healthy non swarmy bees. Period.. Calm because a feisty lot can be terrifying and are not easy to handle. Healthy - it seems obvious but some people sell bees prone to disease (or even diseased) . Non swarmy: If your bees decide they want to swarm every summer (and some do) .. you will find it very difficult to manage them, keep your neighbours happy and get some honey. ALMOST EVERYTHING else - colour, type etc is irrelevant to a beginner. Anyone who tries to say otherwise is best ignored. as they have several axes to grind.

AND finally, make sure you actually enjoy handling bees before spending (LOTS of) money. So find your local Bee Keeping Association . They should be friendly and show you and let you handle bees in Spring ..for no cost. except perhaps an Annual Subscription..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Any system which requires you to work with two different sizes of brood box is an abomination which ignores the first rule of all work: simplify and reduce work. So a National brood box plus a super - known as brood and a half should be instantly discarded. And the advocates of it ignored

 

[Murox]

Any system which requires you to work with two different sizes of brood box is an abomination which ignores the first rule of all work: simplify and reduce work. So a National brood box plus a super - known as brood and a half should be instantly discarded. And the advocates of it ignored

If you are going to aim for honey, then a well run big hive will beat a well run small one. The more bees in summer the better. Honey surpluses are gained by lots of bees. So small boxes or bees that will only fill a small box should be discarded. If you want to keep bees and get 10-20lbs of honey a year ignore this.
If you want to save money and make your own hives, Langstroth are MUCH - repeat much - easier to make than Nationals which were like a camel - designed by a committee.. Langstroth are not by accident the world's hive of choice, and the National Hive confined to the UK only . (The rest of the world has more sense ) ..........................................

 

[Apple]

Any system which requires you to work with two different sizes of brood box is an abomination which ignores the first rule of all work: simplify and reduce work. So a National brood box plus a super - known as brood and a half should be instantly discarded. And the advocates of it ignored

AND

5 different beeks will have 10 different answers!

Tad harsh... I I had stated that the nere-do-wells would be crying to the mods to send me to the naughty step for a moment or two of reflection on the error of my ways!!!

I use brood + 1/2 because it suits my beekeeping and it seems to work with my chosen bees and the environmental conditions that we have locally
QED

 

[The Poot]

This is bad. I’m going to agree as well...

 

[gmonag]

Any system which requires you to work with two different sizes of brood box is an abomination...

Lets hear it for Rose Hives!!!

 

[Apple]

Lets hear it for Rose Hives!!!

It is a system worth considering... particularly if you can make your own boxes.

 

[Murox]

If I were new to beekeeping I think I would just get confused as (generalisation coming up) nearly everything thats written in the uk refers to nationals. The overall dimensions of a rose are similar to the national but the rose box is heavier than a national super. The Rose hive/system does have some merits and in sensitive hands using just one sized box throughout in a vertical hive is appealing.

 

[madasafish]

It is a system worth considering... particularly if you can make your own boxes.

The English are fond of inventing "another incompatible system " which has some merits but all it really does dilute volumes for others and make prices higher.. See Murray McGregor on this forum

See also: WBC hives, Commercials, Smith hives, topbar hives

 

[pargyle]

Any system which requires you to work with two different sizes of brood box is an abomination which ignores the first rule of all work: simplify and reduce work. So a National brood box plus a super - known as brood and a half should be instantly discarded. And the advocates of it ignored

If you are going to aim for honey, then a well run big hive will beat a well run small one. The more bees in summer the better. Honey surpluses are gained by lots of bees. So small boxes or bees that will only fill a small box should be discarded. If you want to keep bees and get 10-20lbs of honey a year ignore this.

I see you live in Shropshire : I recommend poly hives for colder climates (always check posters' locations when talking about this).. those in the balmy South don't know what winter means
Insulated hives keep bees warmer, less stressed and use fewer stores. (Factual)

I agree ... and even those of us in the occasionally semi-mediterranean Costa del Fareham appreciate the benefits of poly hives ... whilst I am more than capable of putting together flat pack timber hives and even building my own ...the benefits of poly boxes to the bees are not to be sniffed at .... even if they do look like colourful fish boxes (I'd love to run WBC's with 14 x 12 inner brood boxes for the look of them but all those lifts .... just a tad too much to deal with !)