Beekeeping myths

[JamezF]

It seems from the experiences here down under with bushfires, a colony doesn't flee a fire but rather they stay where they are and burn to death. If that is the case, then I tend to doubt that they " ready themselves for a possible evacuation".

Unless it's an entirely different sort of "evacuation"

But yes, I think that's certainly a strong case for being very suspicious of the traditional explanation.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the 'proof' often offered by those that try to perpetuate this myth is, when they open up the hives they witness some bees still head first in cells allegedly filling up with honey (but don't they need to water it down before consuming it) however, I often inspect without using smoke at all and have observed the same amount of bees head first in cells. I would be asking
Why would they go into virtually empty cells anyway if they were intent on tanking up with honey as quickly as possible?
As it has been proven (I can't remember where I read it) that workers regularly take little power naps during the day by diving head first into empty cells. Isn't that maybe what they are actually seeing?

 

[JamezF]

As it has been proven (I can't remember where I read it) that workers regularly take little power naps during the day by diving head first into empty cells. Isn't that maybe what they are actually seeing?

I think Celia Davis mentions this in one of her books.

James

 

[Wingy]

Wax moth don’t bother supers
Bees don’t store fondant

Have experienced both to be wrong

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

It's what I was taught years ago, but as a hypothesis it wouldn't appear to offer much in answer to the obvious questions. For example, if it were to suggest to the bees that their nest was at risk of being burnt down, why would the smoke have the effect of calming them? It's argued that bees can't sting when their crop is full of honey, but is there any evidence for that? It wouldn't really be a very well evolved response to predators would it, if half their flying time when they're collecting nectar or water they're defenceless? And what about all the bees that can't sting anyhow -- the nurse bees and drones, for example? What will they be doing? If the effect of smoking the bees is to get them all to stuff themselves with honey so they can leave, wouldn't you expect them all to be madly rushing about when you open up the hive rather than calm and easy to work with? And if it's true, as I was also taught, that prior to swarming the current queen is slimmed down in order to fly, what chance does she have of flying sufficient distance to escape a fire when she isn't? And if they're going to leave, what actually triggers that? Is it common for colonies to abscond during inspections when the beekeeper overdoes the smoke? I'm sure I was as cack-handed as many when I started out (sometimes I still am when my brain isn't properly in gear) and it's never happened to me.

I know it's also suggested that smoke "disguises" the alarm pheromones, but I'm not entirely convinced by that without further evidence either. My understanding is that bees have specific receptors on their antennae for sensing pheromones so why would they not still be able to recognise them?

It appears that bees don't like smoke though and will try to move away from it if possible. These days that's pretty much the only way I use it: to try to persuade them to move away from an area I'd like them not to be -- all over the top bars of the brood chamber when I'm opening up the hive to do an inspection, for example. I don't puff smoke around the entrance of the hive (as I was also taught to do) before opening up or anything like that. I can't see what it would achieve other than potentially agitating the bees, though I suspect it does very little at all other than perhaps make the bees very close to the entrance withdraw a little into the hive.

James

Thanks, James, for doing the thinking for me! That all makes sense.

The one piece of advice about smoking that I value most is from Donald Sims: Smoke ACROSS the tops of the frames.

So I never direct smoke down into the frames. It's the bees that are flying or about to fly that you need to be concerned about. No point in disturbing those quietly going about their business on the frames. I do find, if I'm surrounded by lots of bees, that putting some smoke in the air does reduce frenetic activity. I assumed they were being calmed. Maybe they just head off for a while. It definitely helps me in situations like that to use a pleasant-smelling fuel like wood chips from Wilco (sold as 'animal bedding'). I've found working with others that some fuels are pretty noxious - egg-boxes being the worst.

 

[pevanstone]

It's what I was taught years ago, but as a hypothesis it wouldn't appear to offer much in answer to the obvious questions. For example, if it were to suggest to the bees that their nest was at risk of being burnt down, why would the smoke have the effect of calming them? It's argued that bees can't sting when their crop is full of honey, but is there any evidence for that? It wouldn't really be a very well evolved response to predators would it, if half their flying time when they're collecting nectar or water they're defenceless? And what about all the bees that can't sting anyhow -- the nurse bees and drones, for example? What will they be doing? If the effect of smoking the bees is to get them all to stuff themselves with honey so they can leave, wouldn't you expect them all to be madly rushing about when you open up the hive rather than calm and easy to work with? And if it's true, as I was also taught, that prior to swarming the current queen is slimmed down in order to fly, what chance does she have of flying sufficient distance to escape a fire when she isn't? And if they're going to leave, what actually triggers that? Is it common for colonies to abscond during inspections when the beekeeper overdoes the smoke? I'm sure I was as cack-handed as many when I started out (sometimes I still am when my brain isn't properly in gear) and it's never happened to me.

I know it's also suggested that smoke "disguises" the alarm pheromones, but I'm not entirely convinced by that without further evidence either. My understanding is that bees have specific receptors on their antennae for sensing pheromones so why would they not still be able to recognise them?

It appears that bees don't like smoke though and will try to move away from it if possible. These days that's pretty much the only way I use it: to try to persuade them to move away from an area I'd like them not to be -- all over the top bars of the brood chamber when I'm opening up the hive to do an inspection, for example. I don't puff smoke around the entrance of the hive (as I was also taught to do) before opening up or anything like that. I can't see what it would achieve other than potentially agitating the bees, though I suspect it does very little at all other than perhaps make the bees very close to the entrance withdraw a little into the hive.

James

I have found bees in swarms are reluctant to sting,but on one occasion parting bees on a barbed wire covered post having been painting with gloss paint two stung me by backing onto me,There abdomens seemed stiff.l allways
dress up l fear the hunger swarm.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

been stung plenty of times whilst collecting a swarm

 

[JamezF]

I have found bees in swarms are reluctant to sting

I'd suggest we need to have a care not to anthropomorphise (Of course it's a word! I just made it up! ) here. I'm not sure there's a reason to believe that bees are capable of feeling "reluctance".

Assuming an observation that bees in a swarm appear to sting less, perhaps that could be due to a change in their defensive behaviour or perception of what constitutes a threat. In a swarm they have only themselves to protect. In a hive they have brood, honey and pollen that they will also want to defend. Perhaps it might be a reasonable suggestion that in the latter case they might have a more defensive response (and therefore potentially sting more) than in the former?

James

 

[madasafish]

I experimented in my early years of swarm catching by trying to insert my hands into a swarm (slowly ,gloveless ) and trying to slowly scoop a mass of bees that way into a box.
I don't do it any more:after I was stung a few times or a lot.. on my hands.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I experimented in my early years of swarm catching by trying to insert my hands into a swarm (slowly ,gloveless ) and trying to slowly scoop a mass of bees that way into a box.
I don't do it any more:after I was stung a few times or a lot.. on my hands.

Like J P?

 

[JamezF]

Like J P?

Got to admit that I think I'd have tried sitting a brood box and roof (or some other box) on the edge of the bonnet and smoking the bees up into it first.

James

 

[Michael Palmer]

Worker bees live six weeks. Do they really? Did they ever live six weeks on average?

Five decades ago, the median lifespan for a worker western honeybee (Apis mellifera) that spent its adult life in a controlled environment was 34.3 days. Now, the median is 17.7 days, according to research by Anthony Nearman and Dennis vanEngelsdorp at the University of Maryland.

 

[JamezF]

Digging this thread up once again for a couple of things taught on a beginners' course...

1. Only the older bees leave in a swarm.

2. "Warm way" stops draughts through the entrance that "cold way" doesn't.

James

 

[plain_hunt]

Digging this thread up once again for a couple of things taught on a beginners' course...

1. Only the older bees leave in a swarm.

2. "Warm way" stops draughts through the entrance that "cold way" doesn't.

James

You mean I shouldn’t pass them on in our beginners course? I thought it was common knowledge…

 

[Garry R]

You mean I shouldn’t pass them on in our beginners course? I thought it was common knowledge…

Definitely not!! Some of the myths are completely bananas .......

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Definitely not!! Some of the myths are completely bananas .......

as are some of the people who spread them

 

[The Poot]

Being a student of The Pink Panther, I assumed this thread was about wax myths.
Wax myths are a nuisance if they get into the rheum where you store your drawn comb.

 

[user 20297]

Definitely not!! Some of the myths are completely bananas .......

Isn't one of them about bananas though?

 

[user 20297]

Being a student of The Pink Panther, I assumed this thread was about wax myths.
Wax myths are a nuisance if they get into the rheum where you store your drawn comb.

Quality humour....well above average for this forum.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

bees dont read the same books as us