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oxnatbees 

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What are the obscure comments?
Search for "Beebase security" on this site and you find a thread about how its registration page is not https: ... But further down the thread it's reported that is fixed... In 2015. So, yes, what exactly is insecure? Or are we just an echo chamber here, amplifying rumours? Is there a specific, checkable claim?

Also I fail to see how Beebase would have protected hives from a neighbour moving hives between their (probably registered) apiaries. Beebase is a list of apiaries, not hive movements.

The bee inspectors do a fantastic job and the NBU, though under-resourced, seems staffed by people who care. And for a couple of years they've had to drop everything and comb areas when Asian Hornets are reported, on top of other duties. They don't have time to monitor every hive move.

More relevant is: how did your neighbour's bees come to have EFB?
 

Wilco 

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Search for "Beebase security" on this site and you find a thread about how its registration page is not https: ... But further down the thread it's reported that is fixed... In 2015. So, yes, what exactly is insecure? Or are we just an echo chamber here, amplifying rumours? Is there a specific, checkable claim?

Also I fail to see how Beebase would have protected hives from a neighbour moving hives between their (probably registered) apiaries. Beebase is a list of apiaries, not hive movements.

The bee inspectors do a fantastic job and the NBU, though under-resourced, seems staffed by people who care. And for a couple of years they've had to drop everything and comb areas when Asian Hornets are reported, on top of other duties. They don't have time to monitor every hive move.

More relevant is: how did your neighbour's bees come to have EFB?
I believe it's both a register of apiaries and hives... Ideally you're supposed to record the number of hives per apiary and keep it up to date... You can even keep all your inspection and treatment records on there if you want but I've been disorganised this year...
 

Patrick1 

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Maybe part of an improved system would be to notify movements, although if the number of hives are registered and the SBI arrives to find half that number they would ask what had happened to the others I would hope.
I have no idea how my neighbor got the EFB, its not a blame culture that we need, it’s a detection we need
 

Murox 

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Maybe part of an improved system would be to notify movements, although if the number of hives are registered and the SBI arrives to find half that number they would ask what had happened to the others I would hope.
I have no idea how my neighbor got the EFB, its not a blame culture that we need, it’s a detection we need
I don't disagree with you at all, though I do want to highlight an elephant in the room. The British “establishment/authorities” have a notably abysmal record of co-operation with others, both domestically and internationally, both historically and currently too. A no blame culture would be a very welcome step along the road.
 

Patrick1 

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But you did blame him anyway!
I was told by my SBI the source/area, it did not originate from my apiary of 46 nucs, it was found in one of my nucs just getting started in my area. The SBI also told me the source was the latest’s in several visits over the years.
Usually I would not conder a blame culture, it just happens but in this instance something is going wrong .
 

Patrick1 

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I am on the electoral register, I don’t consider that to be a risk of theft or anything else. We could make excuses for everything if we wanted, why not just get on with it and sort the issues out as we go. Registration should be a positive, we should not let government use soppy legislation like varroa as the excuse, that almost insults our intelligence.
 

milkermel 

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For poultry you can have 49 without registering. 50 or more and you need a CPH number etc.. Sheep, pigs, cattle you register everything, including with a single animal even if you consider it a pet.
That's only if you choose to register with them. Personally I think it's pointless how does being on a register stop your bees, chickens etc catching diseases?? I had sheep for years before registering them I monitored their health and looked after them better than most farmers in my area. Poultry the same. This is first year I have registered with alpha and it's a joke tbh. As for my bees nope see no reason in telling anyone where I keep mine. As others have said it's an open invitation to theives
 

Wilco 

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That's only if you choose to register with them. Personally I think it's pointless how does being on a register stop your bees, chickens etc catching diseases?? I had sheep for years before registering them I monitored their health and looked after them better than most farmers in my area. Poultry the same. This is first year I have registered with alpha and it's a joke tbh. As for my bees nope see no reason in telling anyone where I keep mine. As others have said it's an open invitation to theives
It's not a choice, it's a legal requirement with livestock. How well you look after them is irrelevant to the need to register.
 

Wilco 

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The register is about knowing which stock are where. It doesn't stop any individual outbreak from starting but it means that if an outbreak happens in an area, all sites can be checked to make sure it doesn't spread.
 

milkermel 

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It's not a choice, it's a legal requirement with livestock. How well you look after them is irrelevant to the need to register.
Yes but no one monitors it that's the silly thing we had two turn up on our ground no tags no one claimed ownership, we looked at registration but we're told by several farmers that it would cause more issues than it was worth so just ignore it 😂 we did have a holding number but in 15 years no one has ever come knocking. This year we finally went down the registration route purely because we want to breed. I know see what the farmers ment it's an absolute joke. Yes they asked if I would like to register my poultry when I asked why there really was no sensible answer from them. So no thank you I don't wish to register my poultry or my bees. I see no benefit
 

Wilco 

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Yes but no one monitors it that's the silly thing we had two turn up on our ground no tags no one claimed ownership, we looked at registration but we're told by several farmers that it would cause more issues than it was worth so just ignore it 😂 we did have a holding number but in 15 years no one has ever come knocking. This year we finally went down the registration route purely because we want to breed. I know see what the farmers ment it's an absolute joke. Yes they asked if I would like to register my poultry when I asked why there really was no sensible answer from them. So no thank you I don't wish to register my poultry or my bees. I see no benefit
You may not but if there's a local outbreak of a disease such as avian influenza and it spreads via your flock but isn't detected because you're not registered, you could be responsible for many others losing their livelihoods. Yes it's a hassle and doesn't directly benefit you as an individual but the system is about looking out for other people and being prepared for when there is a disease outbreak. The reason foot and mouth happened here in 2001 was because some genius decided the feed regulations were too much hassle and so didn't apply to them.

Out of interest how did you send any animals to the abattoir without a flock number?
 

milkermel 

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You may not but if there's a local outbreak of a disease such as avian influenza and it spreads via your flock but isn't detected because you're not registered, you could be responsible for many others losing their livelihoods. Yes it's a hassle and doesn't directly benefit you as an individual but the system is about looking out for other people and being prepared for when there is a disease outbreak. The reason foot and mouth happened here in 2001 was because some genius decided the feed regulations were too much hassle and so didn't apply to them.

Out of interest how did you send any animals to the abattoir without a flock number?
 

milkermel 

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Never needed to send to slaughter as they wer just pets so just sent to knackers when their time came, you don't need tags for that for sheep
 

Wilco 

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Never needed to send to slaughter as they wer just pets so just sent to knackers when their time came, you don't need tags for that for sheep
They're still meant to have tags but it's rarely policed.

I think part of the problem is many at APHA seem not to know why things are done or even what needs to be done, which is surely a training issue. I remember one time as a student one person in my year tried to contact them about a suspected Notifiable disease in a feral pigeon brought in and they ended up having to tell the APHA person on the phone what they were supposed to do. Even then nothing happened. However, even with an inefficient system, it is still important to do the right thing and I'm glad your sheep are now registered.
 

IndiBee 

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I am on the electoral register, I don’t consider that to be a risk of theft or anything else..............
I am not. You should consider it a risk. The UK gov is very bad at retaining data. They leak like a sieve:

To be clear; if there was a system of registration that I trusted, I would use it. But the current one is just not fit for purpose, is a voluntary database and therefore I choose not to use it.

As it isn't a legal obligation, it is clearly not seen as important as the legal obligations in other areas of farming e.g. moving a cow from one field to the next; kind of puts into perspective as to how much of a difference DEFRA thinks it can make.
 

Wilco 

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Everything is a choice, you choose which laws to follow. Plenty on here using unregistered OA
I agree that people make a choice with regards to which laws they follow but I was highlighting that the law on registering livestock is not 'optional' as seemed to be presented. It is a legal requirement and there are consequences if you do not follow the law.

Personally I object to (potentially unintentionally) equivalating the use of unlicensed OA and choosing not to register one's livestock (obviously, both illegal). The latter, in the case of a disease outbreak, could lead to the loss of livelihoods (and lives) of others, whereas I find it hard to contrive a scenario where use of unlicensed OA could pose a similar real or legal risk to anyone other than the person using it.
 

IndiBee 

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I agree that people make a choice with regards to which laws they follow but I was highlighting that the law on registering livestock is not 'optional' as seemed to be presented. It is a legal requirement and there are consequences if you do not follow the law.

Personally I object to (potentially unintentionally) equivalating the use of unlicensed OA and choosing not to register one's livestock (obviously, both illegal). The latter, in the case of a disease outbreak, could lead to the loss of livelihoods (and lives) of others, whereas I find it hard to contrive a scenario where use of unlicensed OA could pose a similar real or legal risk to anyone other than the person using it.
Totally agree. Registering livestock when legally obligated is a must.
 

Bazzer 

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There was a recent case of foulbrood near to a couple of my apiaries and the SBI used Beebase to identify where they were and got in touch to do a fairly rapid inspection (all clear). The system is working and I think the security risks are minimal.
 

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