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Drewdrew 

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APHA would need a lot more staff!
Probably will never happen...
If they can track the movements, location and number of sheep, pigs, cows and many other creatures, using a CPH and herd mark, then I'm sure it wouldn't take alot more to add in bee hives.

However, them being a government department, would make the additional work uneconomically viable.
 

Hachi 

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Damn! A lot more than I ever thought I'd have
If they can track the movements, location and number of sheep, pigs, cows and many other creatures, using a CPH and herd mark, then I'm sure it wouldn't take alot more to add in bee hives.

However, them being a government department, would make the additional work uneconomically viable.
Sounds so easy and simple when you skim over it like that but the reality would be far more complex.
 

gmonag 

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Compulsory registration for anyone either keeping or intending to keep bees...... APHA would need a lot more staff!
Probably will never happen... unless we get SHB?????
So you are advocating more regulation?- as a solution to what?
 
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Ian123 

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Had another poke around the .gov cascade pages and I agree that sublimation residue and inefficiency of use would be the main points of argument.

However, if OA can be prescribed under cascade as an extemporaneous preparation - extemporaneous preparations (also known as “veterinary specials”) are products that do not hold a Marketing Authorisation (MA) - and the risks are demonstrated to be negligible, then an optimistic case could be made.

Are the risks negligible? Yes:

Oxalic acid is a key substance for varroosis winter treatment, but in all EU countries government approval for its use was held up by the requirement that the maximum residue limit (MRL) first be officially determined by the European Agency for the Evaluation of Medicinal Products (EMEA). Establishing the MRL as a common European project was financed by scientific institutes and beekeeper associations in most EU countries. Our activities and the procedure of getting the MRL established by the EMEA, which was successfully achieved in December 2004, is described.

You note that most EU countries contributed to the research to prove that MRL of OA was insignificant and that cheap, plain OA was safe to use. Where was the BBKA when the request went out for support? Asleep to the benefits such approval would confer on its members?

If the EU were satisfied that the MRL was not an issue, what of current VMD requirements? They seem to relate more to sophisticated chemical treatments, and perhaps OA might pass these easily:

When using a product under the cascade, you should balance the expected benefits to the animal with the risks of using a medicine under the cascade.

Risks could include those to: the animal, the owner, the person administering the medicine, consumers of produce from treated animals which may contain residues of the veterinary medicine, the environment, wider public health, for example increased selection for antimicrobial resistance.

The pharmacologically active substances contained in the medicine must have a Maximum Residue Limit (MRL).


As this last was established in 2004 and AB was authorised for use in 2015 it looks as if other motivations were at work to override OA in favour of AB.

Perhaps the BBKA will provide a timeline of their involvement in this story, the final chapter of which deprived their members of an effective, cheap and safe tool and obliged them to use one that is less efficient, more expensive and as safe as the one it replaced.
Could you do FOI request.
 

Karol 

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You’d struggle to get that as one condition of using the cascade to prescribe a particular medication is that there is no licensed alternative but in this case there is The cascade refers to a hierarchy of reasons and solutions that need to be satisfied in order to justify its use and I don’t think the mucky residue left in a sublimate cuts the mustard!
As I said there are a number of impediments but the definition of licensed alternative is down to the vet to interpret and justify. So if there is no licensed alternative that is specifically formulated for sublimation and there is a clinical argument to use sublimation then a vet may be persuaded to issue a script for OA. But it is important to be mindful that the vet would have to assume full professional responsibility/liability for the treatment whereas treatment (by the book) is indemnified by the manufacturer when using a licensed product. Bear in mind that sublimation of syrup based formulations will caramelise sugars giving off toxins and this could be a further argument for justifying cascade. I doubt that it would be cheaper when the vets fees are taken into consideration plus costs of procurement from a responsible authorised supplier.
 

hemo 

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Anything vet orientated will certainly add to cost if anything like the ones where I Iive.
 

ericbeaumont 

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Hidden in VMD Fees is a suggestion that an EMA can be converted to full Marketing Authorisation (MA) for £3k.

Karol, is this of any use?

J3110Conversion of an exceptional marketing authorisation to full MA3,0005,86514
 

ericbeaumont 

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Could you do FOI request.
After I'm free of armchair admin.

Seems like I've been sitting here for days and now the office are about to send me an Excel spread-sheet, the tax return needs looking at and...

Found this at the FOI and this lengthy page at whatdotheyknow.com which suggest concentration and a clear head are needed, both of which are in short supply today.
 

Apple 

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Forum or BBKA? The BBKA could usefully change to EBKA as each of the devolved nations has their own national over arching body and being called British confuses some people.
Like British Gas...
Foreign owned
Installs German Boilers
using mostly near Eastern nationals ( Until they realise they can earn more in their home countries).... mind you the Polish Plumber and his Lithuanian mate worked hard and did a good job for our elderly neighbor!
 

Ian123 

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Like British Gas...
Foreign owned
Installs German Boilers
using mostly near Eastern nationals ( Until they realise they can earn more in their home countries).... mind you the Polish Plumber and his Lithuanian mate worked hard and did a good job for our elderly neighbor!
And unlike the English plumber they probably turned up on time😂
 

Karol 

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Hidden in VMD Fees is a suggestion that an EMA can be converted to full Marketing Authorisation (MA) for £3k.

Karol, is this of any use?

J3110Conversion of an exceptional marketing authorisation to full MA3,0005,86514
I'm not in a competent position to comment. Any party wishing to explore such an option would need to consult with the regulator and I suspect it wouldn't be straight forward.
 
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