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Brosville 

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by the British Beekillers Association
http://tinyurl.com/bndmuf
-my initial response after a very swift scan is "give us loads of money that we can squander on admin and find ways of giving our chums in the chemical industry loads of opportunities for flogging their poisons" (Coumaphos?......) :svengo:
 

victor meldrew 

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by the British Beekillers Association
http://tinyurl.com/bndmuf
-my initial response after a very swift scan is "give us loads of money that we can squander on admin and find ways of giving our chums in the chemical industry loads of opportunities for flogging their poisons" (Coumaphos?......) :svengo:
Come on Bronsville, it's easy to slag off an organisation from without :cuss:.
Inspite of the outcome of the last delegates' meeting on the topic ; BBKA recognises that a sizeable minority are against any connection with the endorsement and particularly with the use of the BBKA logo on packaging of pesticide products !!. All large organisations have an inherrant inertia to overcome.so give it time. Please don't have a requiem for an organisation that has promoted beekeepers for 134 years.

John
 

Brosville 

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I fully understand the "change from within" theory, and in many circumstances may choose to take that route - but there are times that there exists an organisation which is so far at odds with one's own beliefs and ethics that the only way you could contemplate helping make a change is from outside it.
I've nothing in principle against a national association for beekeepers, but if it wants me in it, it has to be totally transparent, honest, truly democratic, run for ALL beekeepers in the country, and work tirelessly for bees and beekeepers - at the moment, from the widely touted figures of members, they speak for around a third of British Beekeepers, and several agrochemical concerns.
Until a very short while ago, they wouldn't even contemplate the idea that insecticides could be in any way at fault in bees' problems - I can only presume they've realised that they were a laughing stock by their trying to ignore the chemicalised elephant in the room that they've at long last included it in their lists of possible avenues for exploration.......
What I saw wasn't inertia, in my opinion it was a concerted campaign of obfuscation, prevarication and deliberate obstructiveness to protect their chums in the chemical trade.
I've never made a secret of the fact that I consider "chemical" farming to be positively "last century", and must be swept aside by truly sustainable means of production, and to have an association that seems far more protective of chemical companies than bees or beekeepers is showing signs of having totally lost the plot!
So, it is at the moment rather an irrelevance - it can't claim to speak for all British beekeepers, as nearly 2 out of 3 choose not to be members (and I would consider that from my experiences that it is more likely a conscious decision NOT to join than apathy)
Last but not least, following their recent tactics, can I trust them ever again? - is registration a precursor to mass-medication? Is there any truth in the rumours that they're replacing "natives" with imported queens?......
I'll stay a determined outsider (and if necessary, critic) until I see a thoroughly cleansed, reformed and rebuilt association that deserves to be taken seriously!
 

victor meldrew 

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A typical voiciferous reply to an honest appraisal of of the status-quo.

John
 

Brosville 

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Verbose, flowery even, but an honest and heartfelt plea for acts to be got together, fingers to be pulled out - we have a bee population to save - if a few overfed arses have to be kicked to overcome inertia, so be it!:)
 

victor meldrew 

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Please change your tactics, the way you approach the problem will only result in a painful hammer toe :).

John (end of discussion , I've no wish to be a foil for your rantings )
 

Brosville 

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was that a veiled or implied threat of some sort?
I replied to your post fully, you apparently didn't like my answer, could you possibly clarify your "stubbed toe" comment?
 
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victor meldrew 

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Vainly kicking a**ses, leads to hammer toes :)
Anyone who thinks this is a threat must be paranoid.

John
 

Poly Hive 

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Define chemical farming?

Without artificial fertilizers this country couldn't afford to eat.

PH
 

Brosville 

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I won't cut and paste buckets - just point you to this article which rather succinctly sums up one way of achieving DOUBLE the present land yields with not a fossil fuel input in sight - http://tinyurl.com/bzf38l

To my mind "chemical" farming is one that is reliant on fossil fuels both as fuels, and chemical fertilisers, which is the "last century" sledgehammer to crack the nut of nature, and subjugate it to our will - we have to learn to work WITH nature, and not have the arrogance to think we can do better by bludgeoning it with crude instruments (which are running out.......) :)
 

Poly Hive 

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Two comments.

The rig is an exploration jack up not a production unit and with such basic facts wrong ho hum. Yes farming is highly oil dependent and one farm may indeed get away with outside cattle, they are actually hardly unique in that matter, but it the article really does not address the issues.

I do agree there are issues mind. Flying is the one that boggles my mind.

PH
 

Brosville 

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I'm a little baffled as to why the choice of picture by a picture editor has anything to do with the price of fish, but never mind.........
I thought that she clearly set out the fact that we're running out of oil, upon which modern prairie monoculture, chemical dependant farming subsists, and points to a way in which we can produce more on the same land with no chemical inputs. The basics are incredibly simple - chemical farming is unsustainable - it is also killing the innate fertility of the land, with careful husbandry, the complex eco-systems in the soil can be helped to function again - the "heart" returns to the land, and not only can present yields be matched, but considerably surpassed.
I don't pretend that it isn't very different from what we've come to know as "farming" and I accept it will require something of a revolution to bring about, but we have little choice, we need sustainable farming, and soon, or as Will Self put it so picturesquely on Question Time the other week "we're toast":)
I was under the impression that people on this forum were in favour of bees and their health - the direction this young lady is suggesting puts creatures like bees and their health at the very heart of what they're trying to do......
 

TBRNoTB 

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Chemical this and that

To my mind "chemical" farming is one that is reliant on fossil fuels both as fuels, and chemical fertilisers, which is the "last century" sledgehammer to crack the nut of nature, and subjugate it to our will - we have to learn to work WITH nature, and not have the arrogance to think we can do better by bludgeoning it with crude instruments (which are running out.......) :)
Right on man...so sixties:nature-smiley-016:
Presumably all medical advance's should go out with the bath water?
Regards:driving:
 

Brosville 

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Something tells me that you haven't watched the video, (and quite what medical progress has to do with the subject of it is totally beyond me..........)
Try watching the video (the torrent is still available for download) (or actually read the linked article) then the penny may drop.... she's a very bright and articulate communicator who explains in a way that even the dimmest and most obtuse can understand her very valid points........ She shows that we have little choice but to find ways to revivify (bring life back) to the soil, and find better ways (working WITH nature for a change) as modern factory farming is unsustainable (that means we can't go on this way.......the resources are running out, we are poisoning the planet.......)
As for the sixties, I'm very pleased that I was a teenager during them, and it was better than you've read........... I'm told I enjoyed them - sobered up circa 1981....:cheers2:
 

Brosville 

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ps, Just in cast flicking back a page is too much effort, or unwarranted strain on the intellect, here's the link to the article about the video - http://tinyurl.com/bzf38l
 

madasafish 

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I love people advocating policies which - if carried through - would lead to the death of half the world's population...

Or with the Western world having a reduced calorific intake , a much healthier diet for 1/3rd of the world and more food available for the rest..

As all resources are finite, it would be nice to see a recognition that growth is not infinite and that that old clergman's # postulates on the limits of population might be correct..

I suspect I'll be dead long before any recognition of the limits on growth takes hold.... in which case it will not be half the population which will die but a lot more...

#Malthus.

But man as a species is determined and highly inventive so what today looks like a dead end may be turned on its head.



Malthus wrote before the invention of artificail fetilisers and the tractor.. which made his theories redundant...for over 160 years...


Pessimism is not an attractive trait.
 

TBRNoTB 

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D... H...

ps, Just in cast flicking back a page is too much effort, or unwarranted strain on the intellect, here's the link to the article about the video - http://tinyurl.com/bzf38l
Sticks and stone etc, no, I have not read the article and have no intention to. What I object to is your overbearing, pompous, condesending, patronising, holier than thou attitude. I may well have read it until I read your post, which now seems to have been a little unproductive.:cuss:
Regards
TBRNoTB:driving:
 

victor meldrew 

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Sticks and stone etc, no, I have not read the article and have no intention to. What I object to is your overbearing, pompous, condesending, patronising, holier than thou attitude. I may well have read it until I read your post, which now seems to have been a little unproductive.:cuss:
Regards
TBRNoTB:driving:
Haven't you worked it out yet? he's a one song singer and not x factor material either !!

John Wilkinson
 

Brosville 

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"no, I have not read the article and have no intention to" -
they do say ignorance is bliss - I presume you're "blissed out".........

How on earth can you know it's wrong, mistaken or anything else?

I responded (very moderately to a frankly insulting and irrelevant post)

"Right on man...so sixties
Presumably all medical advance's should go out with the bath water? "

As I said, what on earth have my comments or the article or video got to do with medicine? - and yet you accuse me of everything short of eating babies for daring to be a teensie sarkie about your unwillingness/inability to actually find out what you're having a go at me for..........
 
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Roy S 

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Brosville, I think the problem with a lot of todays green "warriors" yourself included, is that you tend to come across very aggressively in your posts. This maybe a passion of yours and I applaud your conviction, but in my experience its always better to try to win people around with nice words and acts than to get people wound up before you try to get your message across.
The old childrens story about the wind and the sun trying to get the coat off a man keeps springing to mind.

I try to be as green as I can wherever possible, but dont try to ram my thoughts down peoples throats at every opportunity.

In my experience Martin Smith is an extremely approachable chap as no doubt are the rest of the BBKA council, with no hidden agendas. He doesnt try to hide from any questions and will answer you honestly when he does.

I used to support both greenpeace and freinds of the earth....no more I dont, no matter how much is accomplished its never enough for these organisations....fair point, but like a parent that doesnt encourage a child, over time that child loses interest and stops making ANY effort to improve. I think the green movement could be in danger of shooting itself in the foot.
People get fed up with negativity and lack of support.
 

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