Quantcast

BBC local radio bias, selling Bayer toxins

Beekeeping Forum

Help Support Beekeeping Forum:

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
is now on (sun am, 9-12) offering gardening advice -the "expert", one Steve Bradley is advising use of several toxic nostrums, audibly plugging (by name!) Bayer products (and others), including those containing neonicotinoids........
I fired off an irate but polite email ,and got a very patronising "on air" response that I was cherry-picking, should go and check my facts, and that we had the strictest regime for passing chemicals for use.............
Should anyone else fancy joining in, it's on air now............
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlive/bbc_radio_sussex/
 

MuswellMetro 

Queen Bee
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
6,519
Reaction score
22
Location
London N10
Hive Type
14x12
is now on (sun am, 9-12) offering gardening advice -the "expert", one Steve Bradley is advising use of several toxic nostrums, audibly plugging (by name!) Bayer products (and others), including those containing neonicotinoids........
I fired off an irate but polite email ,and got a very patronising "on air" response that I was cherry-picking, should go and check my facts, and that we had the strictest regime for passing chemicals for use.............
Should anyone else fancy joining in, it's on air now............
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/playlive/bbc_radio_sussex/

what was the product contianing neonicotinoids they promoted
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
Provado and Bugclear - one could almost suspect it was paid product placement - every other bit of advice includes a plug for Bayer products (by name) - he's just plugged some lawn "icide" from them!
 

MuswellMetro 

Queen Bee
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
6,519
Reaction score
22
Location
London N10
Hive Type
14x12
agree heard the latter hslf of the program...Bayer mad garden killer, everything was chemical chemical etc

complaint send to BBC main web site,
1) quoting anti bee use of non accaptable chemicals
2) bias to Bayer,
3) not promoting bee freindly methods (Sic) Bayer BBKA endorsed products..he decride use of soapy water to kill aphids and said use a bayer product, even the presenter seemed suprised at that

Overheard when i tuned into Radio sussex driving to hear traffic news

not what i expect from the BBC,
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
I'm going to be on the 'phone to the station tomorrow, and will follow it up with a very strongly-worded and detailed complaint on two fronts, firstly the advice is deadly to bees, secondly, it was blatant advertising for Bayer products - during the patronising online reply they said they couldn't mention company names I'd used (Bayer!!!), yet Mr Bradley spent the entire programme plugging the bloody things! :svengo:
 

Heather 

Queen Bee
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
4,038
Reaction score
2
Location
Newick, East Sussex
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
17
Bum - missed- will listen 'again' and if not happy -complaints will go to BBC- feedback
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
this is the email I sent which caused the overwhelmingly arrogant and patronising online reply (so you know what they deliberately avoided if you give it a listen on iplayer)

"I've just winced visibly at the advice to use synthetic fungicides, and other pesticides from Bayer- the latest research from Penn State, who are investigating the problems being suffered by bees is suggesting that "icides" may well be the root of the problems - particularly the "cocktail effects"
- (in simple terms, fungicides can make neonicotinoids hundreds of times more potent - there is no argument they are deadly to bees, the only argument is at what concentration)
Steve Bradley is obviously very knowledgeable, it is a great shame he is suggesting use of chemicals (many of which have been banned abroad because of the damage they do to bees). Gardening is eminently possible organically, and I would suggest that if people care about bees that they should learn to do without synthetic chemicals - as many media gardeners have shown, it is possible, successful and can help preserve a very valuable species.
Sadly, the British Beekeeper's Association perpetuate the myth that "icides" are harmless to bees, they also accept funding from Bayer and Syngenta - obviously no connection there then!"
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
I think the time has come for some "cage-rattling"....... I suspect he is spearheading the chemical brigade's fightback in the BBC, 2 or 3 years ago, hardly a mention was given to "chemical" gardening - all we got was the occasional appearance of the odious Peter Seabrook, apart from that all the major gardening programmes were organic throughout, and most of the big-name presenters were adamantly pro-organic - Monty Don, Alan Titchmarsh etc, I've noticed the chemical brigades weaselling their way back in!
I have a feeling Steve Bradley may post on the RHS website as "Bogweevil" - I had a several page interchange with him recently on the same subject - the tone, arrogance and blind support of chemicals are identical.....
http://mygarden.rhs.org.uk/forums/t/25614.aspx
My "nom de forum" there is "Organix"
 

gavin 

Drone Bee
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
1,331
Reaction score
0
Location
Tayside
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
about 70 and rising
I too would probably have winced if a radio gardening expert was encouraging indiscriminate pesticide use ... but I also winced reading your rant Brosville.

"I've just winced visibly at the advice to use synthetic fungicides, and other pesticides from Bayer- the latest research from Penn State, who are investigating the problems being suffered by bees is suggesting that "icides" may well be the root of the problems - particularly the "cocktail effects"
I take it that you can tell us which pesticides in the US commercial beekeepers samples topped the lists from Penn State? And who put them there?

It is well worth keeping up to date with the latest research from Penn State. None of it implicates the kind of agrochemical you are railing against.

I'm hardly surprised that you were told that you were cherry-picking and should go and check your facts!

G.
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
Dear old Gavin, still defending the indefensible in his usual manner!
The guy was WAY out of order, blatantly plugging BAYER products by name on the BBC, and advising against safe natural treatments whilst "puffing" the chemical treatments.
The facts remain - neonicotinoids are in on way proven safe for bees - the only argument is at what concentration they are lethal - even their makers don't argue that they are lethal to bees, just at what level, and lastly sidestep the matter of "cocktail effects" completely.
If you are of a scientific bent (strange freudian slip there?), you cannot argue about the "precautionary principle" - if there is the slightest doubt about a substance (whether used singly, or in combination with others),it is entirely reasonable that amateur gardeners should not be encouraged to use them until they are completely exonerated by independent tests into single and "mixed" uses- which brings me to the patronising arrogance of the "chemical pushers" who go on like a nun who's had her bum pinched that us "organic nuts" DARE to suggest reasonable caution - which is, after all scientific!
They also hint that our request to exercise that caution is in some way, unfair, unrealistic, or immature - the world will not come to an end without their use, gardeners can garden organically - most satisfactorily!
 
Last edited:

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
erhem!
http://www.freshpatents.com/Synergistic-mixtures-exhibiting-insecticidal-and-fungicidal-action-dt20081023ptan20080261811.php
For the non-technical - it is seeking patents to exploit the "cocktail effect" of neonicotinoids and fungicides....
Which rather says to me that cocktail effects exist - and would remind chemical apologists that we are talking about UK gardens here, and chemicals deemed "safe" by one of the laxest regulatory systems in the Western world.......(or was the possibility that Spirotetramat is about to receive clearance in the UK before almost anywhere else a figment of my fevered organic imagination?)
Did I not also hear a rumour that a certain discredited minority beekeeper's association were weaselling it as "totally safe for bees"?..........
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
erhem - again! From the horse's mouth (Maryann Fraser at Penn State)

"In addition, there is concern about the practice of combining certain insecticides and fungicides.
A North Carolina University study found that some neonicotinoids in combination with certain fungicides, synergized to increase the toxicity of the neonicotinoid to honey bees over 1,000 fold in lab studies. Iwasa et al. (2004). Both the neonicotinoids and the fungicides (Terraguard and
Procure) are widely used. This synergistic effect needs to be looked at more carefully"

from here -

www.panna.org/files/PennStateProtectingBeesFromPesticides.pdf
 

gavin 

Drone Bee
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Messages
1,331
Reaction score
0
Location
Tayside
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
about 70 and rising
Hi Brosville

Nice to see some calm, thoughtful comments from you!

Since you didn't answer my question, maybe I can direct you to some recent research involving Maryann Frazier of Penn State which you can read on the web:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0009754

Thanks Pete, I hadn't seen that one until now!

You can see LD50s, and the percentages of detections of things like imidacloprid and all the other pesticides in wax, pollen and bees. Now look at the beekeeper-applied chemicals and their LD50s (and bear in mind that some of them also can show synergistic effects with particular fungicides).

Note I'm not saying that this is good - it is a shocking indictment of the pesticides used particularly in US beekeeping and also in US agriculture. Our use of things like imidacloprid in agriculture is a lot more controlled, and implying that our regulators are lax is just simply untrue. But none of this backs up those complaining about neonicotinoids.

Now then, your Maryann Frazier document. It is three years old, and three years ago *I* thought that CCD was likely to have a major pesticide component, particularly neonicotinoids. Clearly she did too.

Here is a Penn State paper from one year ago, and Maryann Frazier is an author on this too:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0006481

Here are the principal findings:

'Of 61 quantified variables (including adult bee physiology, pathogen loads, and pesticide levels), no single measure emerged as a most-likely cause of CCD. Bees in CCD colonies had higher pathogen loads and were co-infected with a greater number of pathogens than control populations, suggesting either an increased exposure to pathogens or a reduced resistance of bees toward pathogens. Levels of the synthetic acaricide coumaphos (used by beekeepers to control the parasitic mite Varroa destructor) were higher in control colonies than CCD-affected colonies.'

Read the whole thing if you don't believe me.

There are several other recent 'multifactorial' studies on colony losses, and I'm not aware of one that shows any sign of a link to pesticides. OK, I agree that pesticides in gardens shouldn't be enthusiastically encouraged, but if you are going to campaign against something you do have to have at least some basis in reality surely? Or is it all OK just because a German multinational company is behind your most detested insecticides?

If all of this is too technical .... and your bees use oilseed rape, the biggest single source of imidacloprid for UK bees ... just ask yourself how did they look last May when the rape was out? Confused, disorientated, declining, or building up rapidly and storing a surplus? And the wintering bees that were raised in August/September and which everyone worries about overwinter, what were they raised on?

best wishes

Gavin
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
Typical water-muddying! Let's stick to NNs shall we? We are talking about commonly-used garden chemicals in the UK, NNs are sold for amateur use - let's be frank, that means most users "won't have a clue" - if they can be abused/misused, they will be..... Add into the equation the cocktail effect -which entirely negates any claims as to it's "safety" for bees - therefore it is plain wrong to allow it's use until it is completely exonerated by independent testing - both as a single entity, and when used in a cocktail......... Sorry - did you say there isn't ANY independent research in the UK - that these are just passed "on the nod?" - surely not!
As I said - on the precautionary principle.......... but you and I both know that's "dangerous talk" - can't let amateur gardeners find out that they can do very well without the products of the chemical companies - that really would be a disaster, wouldn't it?
I frankly don't give a flying fig who it is making Zyklon Bee, or where it is made, all I know is that there is sufficient doubt as to most products' safety, and that on the precautionary principle they should be withdrawn until proven entirely safe..........
As I've said, I'm still "learning gardening" - it's why I listen to and watch gardening programmes, if I as a complete tyro can garden totally organically, with a very high degree of success, I can see no reason why those with apparent expertise should plug toxic nostrums........
 

Brosville 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
3,132
Reaction score
0
Location
uk
Hive Type
tbh
Number of Hives
4
"or a reduced resistance of bees toward pathogens" - which from where I'm standing could well be suggesting that it is a possibility that exposure to a cocktail of chemicals may not in fact kill the bees outright (a sub-lethal dose), but render them wide open to simple diseases because of a trashed immune system.......whichever - it is more than ample reason to dissuade amateur gardeners from using the independently untested chemicals - as I said, noone will starve from not using them in a garden.....................
 

admin 

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
6,393
Reaction score
1
Location
Hampshire uk
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
6
Has anyone done any LD50 studies of combined chemicals in bees?
Maybe more important is the effects the combined chemicals have on the immune system,after all many believe (me included)that the chemicals are lowering the resistance to bacterial pathogens and viruses.
 

Latest posts

Top