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Bayer v. beekeepers

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What a scientist didn't tell the New York Times about his study on bee deaths.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/08/news/honey_bees_ny_times.fortune/index.htm

I dont suppose the BBKA will be investing any funds into uk insecticide research antime soon then ?

As a side note,look who wrote the first reply to the article :eek: :leaving:

I think mr Bispham is banned from every beekeeping forum/mailist in the world so now has to use newspaper comment sections to spread the gospel.

For anyone new to the forum who does not know who he is,this is the guy that believes all Bees/animals/I think even children should not be treated for disease but should be allowed to die as its natures natural way of weeding out the bad.

This is from July 2009: http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1781&highlight=Bispham
 
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I've just finished watching 'Vanishing of the Bees' and Bayer do not come out at all well...
 
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From what I understand the CNN report is mostly fiction and the link with chemical industry funding strongly denied - it's a "see you in court" issue at the moment.

What was spooky was when I followed the link I found a picture of myself on the CNN page and a link to my Facebook page. Very clever or very sinister? I haven't responded or tried to comment on the CNN item so somehow their system identified me looking at the page and then cross-linked it with Facebook. The arms of Big Brother are very long indeed.
 

mbc 

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Scary stuff rooftops ! Big brother indeed !
As for the article its rubbish and anybody could check this out by quickly perusing the subject on bee-l ( an excellent well informed forum mostly populated by our friends accross the atlantic )
 

gavin 

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I think that it is really important that people understand what is going on out there. A study - honestly done by honest researchers untainted by Bayer funding - is disliked by those who want to push the anti-pesticide agenda. Total lies are published by CNN. The story is quickly whipped all round the globe because it fits what a lot of people *want* to believe, that pesticides are the number one problem and science has been corrupted by agrochemical companies.

Jerry Bromenshenk was good enough to respond to me when I tried to correct a libellous circular coming from the European Professional Beekeepers Association. This was his reply. I hope that he doesn't mind me posting a semi-private email on a forum (he circulated it to a list of Scottish beekeepers), but I think that it is really important to expose the demonisation of researchers that is going on simply because they are not distorting their work to fit the anti-pesticide agenda.

Gavin

-----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Gavin

We are discussing pursing a libel suit with our Univ lawyers and our own lawyers.

We DID NOT receive a grant from Bayer.
We DID disclose our funding sources on PloS ONE - the published journal article.
Much of the experimental design and ALL of the analysis was conducted by the US ARMY.
Our acoustic device is funded by a research grant from the USDA - it is able to detect pesticides as readily, more so at this time, then the disease pathogens.
The writer was told all of this, yet she wrote that article.

She did not ask any of her supposed sources whether they or anyone CLOSELY associated with them received funds with respect to pesticide studies.

Jerry
 

Brosville 

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Good heavens, do I detect the merest whiff of prejudice here? Claims as to who funded this research may be incorrect or not - but to try to whitewash Bayer and it's apologists is just as disengenuous as the paranoid suggestion that there's an army of dreadfully unfair people "out to get" those entirely blameless people in Bayer and similar companies (for no reason whatsoever)

"science has been corrupted by agrochemical companies" - it is, on a regular basis, hardly surprising that there's a great many people who at the very least distrust the honesty and integrity of the pesticide industry.
 

gavin 

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Prejudice?!

...... but to try to whitewash Bayer and it's apologists is just as disengenuous as the paranoid suggestion that .....
What are you on about? Whitewashing Bayer and its apologists? Jerry Bromenshenk is *not* a Bayer apologist.

This is not about Bayer, it is about a serious, independent scientist being scandalously discredited simply because he came out with the wrong message.

On the Treehugger thing, yes, you will find competitors implying that this isn't the whole story. I agree, this is not the whole story. There will be other things that contribute to the collapses. Let's find out what *they* are in an unbiased way, and not leap to conclusions as so many people have done. The Penn State group are, I understand, direct competitors of Jerry Bromenshenk. They might be feeling a bit piqued that they were given large amounts of research dollars to throw at this question and they missed it. Time will tell whether these two pathogens explain everything or just parts of it.

best wishes

Gavin
 

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I gained the impression that you were implying that anyone who didn't think that Bayer was any less than lily-white were in some way dangerous biased loonies*, and were suspicious of Bayer with no justification whatsoever.
As I said, I have no idea whether Mr Bromenshenk's work was funded by Bayer or not, but had it been, it would hardly be the first time a certain company had gained influence with it's cheque book (I've even heard rumours about a certain ostensibly independent organisation..........:biggrinjester:)

* in your own words -
"those who want to push the anti-pesticide agenda"
"because it fits what a lot of people *want* to believe",

"and not leap to conclusions" - should apply equally to those who for some reason or another are keen to leap to the defence of the pesticide industry........
 

gavin 

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Hi Martin

*I* think that Bayer is less than lily-white, OK?

Professor Bromenshenk's reputation is the issue. This discussion isn't about Bayer, it is about the integrity of an independent scientist who is having his name dragged through the mud. He flatly denies having the Bayer grant that he was accused of having, flatly denies not revealing what his financial sources were (in fact they are declared in the paper), flatly denies that he has developed technology that will detect pathogens more readily than pesticides in his own company - the reverse in fact.

It is character assassination at its worst.

Gavin
 

psafloyd 

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Hi Martin

*I* think that Bayer is less than lily-white, OK?

Professor Bromenshenk's reputation is the issue. This discussion isn't about Bayer, it is about the integrity of an independent scientist who is having his name dragged through the mud. He flatly denies having the Bayer grant that he was accused of having, flatly denies not revealing what his financial sources were (in fact they are declared in the paper), flatly denies that he has developed technology that will detect pathogens more readily than pesticides in his own company - the reverse in fact.

It is character assassination at its worst.

Gavin
I agree in that people repeating a libel doesn't make it true.
 

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My understanding is that this story made the front page of the new york times,hence why I started the thread as it was my belief that the NYT would of done their homework first.

Did they not say the researcher had financial ties with Bayer rather than was being funded by them ?

I need to go find the article online.
 

gavin 

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Hi Mark

The original NYT article was entirely accurate and balanced. It is a good introduction to the topic and shows the caveats the researchers were putting on their conclusions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/science/07bees.html

The CNN Money article is one that already appeared on this forum and is full of lies. I can call them lies rather than misunderstandings as Jerry Bromenshenk was shown the article before publication and tried to correct it but the writer wasn't interested.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/08/news/honey_bees_ny_times.fortune/index.htm

It accuses Professor Bromenshenk of having taken Bayer grant money (untrue), it says that his accoustic scanners will mean that he can gain financially from assessing pathogens and not pesticides (untrue), and there was an accusation that he did not declare his funding sources (untrue, he did so and these were published along with his paper).

For those of you who believe Professor Bromenshenk's protestations of the untrue nature of these accusations - as I do - you might like to consider how damaging it can be to a scientist to have your reputation besmirched in this way. Here is one thing you can all do to see the effect of smear campaigns like this. Just simply Google 'bromenshenk bayer'.

So yes, CNN Money should have done their homework, and didn't. I really hope that he gets some recompense by dragging them through the courts.

best wishes

Gavin
 

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AH, now I understand..
I did find the NYT article and thought it may of been edited to remove the stuff stated by cnn,but now it all makes sense.
Its funny how mud starts to stick on the internet even when things are not true.
Looks like the prof has a case to me.

Thanks for that Gavin. :cheers2:
 

apicanada 

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I am new to this forum but this article is what made me join. I think that we can improve our communication with fellow beekeepers on how this article is BS!!!

It's everything...as a whole! I am a practicing biodynamic beekeeper....is anyone interested in finding out more on the aspect of biodynamics? write to me...

I have built my own Warré hives and would like to know if anyone else has either heard of or tried keeping bees in the top bar hives.

Happy buzzing,
 

gavin 

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Everything (as a whole) causes CCD? That's a bit sweeping, isn't it?!

:willy_nilly:

I'm willing to listen to suggestions that Warré and TBHs might be an interesting alternative to the more usual (but often equally sympathetic) ways of keeping bees, but I have to say that biodynamic beekeeping is taking things a bit far.

G.
 

Brosville 

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I too have some " credibility" problems with the wilder fringes of Biodynamic theory, BUT if you look upon it as "the proof of the pudding is in the eating", there is no doubt that Demeter produce is very high grade "pure" organic food, grown in a way that is sustainable, I would certainly eat it before "conventionally" (chemically, and increasingly GM) produced "food".
Steiner Schools have for many decades been in the forefront of education of those with special needs, so I am reluctant to jettison this particular baby with the bathwater.........(I think at least there is value in engaging in a polite dialogue with those "doing it biodynamically" - we may ALL learn something!)
 

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